But the devil is in the details. Brady will still count $35 mil against the cap from deferred money, so cap problem not solved. And the top nine other players are locked into contracts and can't be cut without significant cap hits. Godwin, Evans, Barrett, Davis, Smith, Vea, Jensen, Gage, and White, all locked in for 2023. Of those, who do you want to get rid of? Don't even bother answering. It doesn't matter, because you can't get rid of them.
Well, one of those dudes you said they "can't get rid of" was just released.
Look, every team makes changes every year. So the Cam Brates and Kyle Rudolphs and Akeem Hickses will be gone and some other rookie or journeyman player will come in. That happens with every team every year. The Bucs will make some roster changes, but not major ones with the top players ... other than QB. They can't. I'm just the messenger. You can choose to believe me or not. That's your deal. It's just the facts.
”Just the facts” eh?
You’re going to be stunned in the offseason. JC is right. I just hope you’ll be around to eat your crow.
lolz @ "just the facts" & "I'm just the messenger"
Good job cherry picking my quote. Smith was the one who was going to be released of that bunch. We all knew that he would be released. I have referred to that in other posts, because it will save us some cap space. See my posts about Godwin. What about the rest of the list? My point was that there would be as few or fewer changes than in a typical year. That doesn't mean none. When you say there are going to be wholesale changes, how many of those guys have to be let go to fit that description? I would say more than two or three, wouldn't you?
Of the nine guys I mentioned, how many do you think will be gone?
According to OTC, the average roster churn for an NFL team from 2013 to 2020 is 56.4% retention. Hard to believe, but that's what they say. The range is 34 a low of 34.7% to a max 71.5% I suppose the Bucs have been on the high end in the past couple years, but even if they have just average turnover they will churn off 4 or 5 out of every ten guys. So if you think there's going to be a lot of turnover, I assume you are talking about more than half the team will be gone. Is that what you are saying?
Only 8 more days until the Bucs have to be under the salary cap. Still $40 million over the cap. Trade 2 or 3 of high cost players or release a bunch. Going to be interesting to see how the Bucs get down to the salary cap. Will the Bucs use the Saints blueprint to get under the salary cap?
Only 8 more days until the Bucs have to be under the salary cap. Still $40 million over the cap. Trade 2 or 3 of high cost players or release a bunch. Going to be interesting to see how the Bucs get down to the salary cap. Will the Bucs use the Saints blueprint to get under the salary cap?
Lenny, Brate, Succop, Gage, and White are all moveable pieces to help.
Good job cherry picking my quote. Smith was the one who was going to be released of that bunch. We all knew that he would be released. I have referred to that in other posts, because it will save us some cap space. See my posts about Godwin. What about the rest of the list? My point was that there would be as few or fewer changes than in a typical year. That doesn't mean none. When you say there are going to be wholesale changes, how many of those guys have to be let go to fit that description? I would say more than two or three, wouldn't you?
Of the nine guys I mentioned, how many do you think will be gone?
You been screaming “contracts are facts”, “I’m just posting facts”, “don’t shoot the messenger” and the like for months, after ring told teams cut players under contract all of the time, Professor. Hell, I even foreshadowed you not wanting to take your medicine when the inevitable happens - and here we are.
We all knew that he would be released.
I’m sure that’s why you said Smith was “locked in for 2023” in this thread and called his contract a fact in others.
As you were told months ago, players under contract get cut all of the time. Just take your medicine, Professor.
Good job cherry picking my quote. Smith was the one who was going to be released of that bunch. We all knew that he would be released. I have referred to that in other posts, because it will save us some cap space. See my posts about Godwin. What about the rest of the list? My point was that there would be as few or fewer changes than in a typical year. That doesn't mean none. When you say there are going to be wholesale changes, how many of those guys have to be let go to fit that description? I would say more than two or three, wouldn't you?
Of the nine guys I mentioned, how many do you think will be gone?
You been screaming “contracts are facts”, “I’m just posting facts”, “don’t shoot the messenger” and the like for months, after ring told teams cut players under contract all of the time, Professor. Hell, I even foreshadowed you not wanting to take your medicine when the inevitable happens - and here we are.
We all knew that he would be released.
I’m sure that’s why you said Smith was “locked in for 2023” in this thread and called his contract a fact in others.
As you were told months ago, players under contract get cut all of the time. Just take your medicine, Professor.
No, doubling down on the cherry pick doesn't make it any less of a cherry pick. As for my question, I'll ask again. Of those top salary players, how many will be gone during this clearance sale you and some others are predicting? Smith is gone and that's no surprise. How many will be gone? And does that constitute the changing of guard that you were envisioning?
If I'm wrong about anyone, it will be White. I didn't think there was any way the Bucs would move on from him, but now I'm not so sure.
No, doubling down on the cherry pick doesn't make it any less of a cherry pick
This is a common refrain amongst those who don't like their words to be thrown in their face. You made the statements in this thread and multiple others, Professor. You clearly consider yourself some sort of capologist, without actually understanding how the league works. Players under contract get cut every season. We see surprise cuts every offseason. Something you've only recently noticed.
As for my question, I'll ask again. Of those top salary players, how many will be gone during this clearance sale you and some others are predicting?
I didn't and don't know how many or who will be gone, and never claimed to. What I did know months ago, when you were telling everyone those players (including the guy who was just cut) were "locked in for 2023", that some of them would be gone. You pushed back with "contracts are facts" and other nonsense that has now come back to bite you.
Smith is gone and that's no surprise.
lolz
I found it pretty surprising, considering you told me his contract was a fact and he was locked in for 2023. I had complete trust in you, Professor.
Jesus, now you are tripling down. People were saying the Bucs were going to make wholesale changes, and I was saying they weren't going to do that. That was the main idea of the discussion. So you now are apparently back tracking on your side, and cherry picking one thing I said. The best defense is a good offense. So go on the offensive against somebody else so you don't have to admit you are wrong. Yes, I was mistaken in putting Smith in with that list. Congrats. My point that the Bucs are keeping a lot of their players is still standing, whether or not a couple guys are gone. Every team makes changes every year. That doesn't mean it's a fire sale. Is your point that the Bucs will make wholesale changes still standing? Apparently not. That's cool. You are entitled to backtrack now and then.
Is your point that the Bucs will make wholesale changes still standing? Apparently not. That's cool. You are entitled to backtrack now and then.
This is a strawman. I never said the Bucs will make wholesale changes. Hell, it's not even close to what I said:
I didn't and don't know how many or who will be gone, and never claimed to. What I did know months ago, when you were telling everyone those players (including the guy who was just cut) were "locked in for 2023", that some of them would be gone
I simply pushed back on your delusions that all players under contract for 2023 would be on the team in 2023. You've finally come to the realization that was a fantasy, regardless of the "contracts are facts" mantra you pushed for the last two months.
Yes, I was mistaken in putting Smith in with that list.
There ya go, that's how you're supposed to take your medicine.
According to OTC, the average roster churn for an NFL team from 2013 to 2020 is 56.4% retention. Hard to believe, but that's what they say.
It's really not that hard to believe, if you've paid attention to the NFL for any length of time. It's actually what I and others tried to tell you when you were screaming your "contracts are facts" nonsense. But I'm glad your eyes have now been opened.
But - if any additional players that you've repeatedly claimed were "locked in for 2023" are cut, you can bet your sweet ass I'm going to start "cherry picking" again.
Is your point that the Bucs will make wholesale changes still standing? Apparently not. That's cool. You are entitled to backtrack now and then.
This is a strawman. I never said the Bucs will make wholesale changes. Hell, it's not even close to what I said:
I didn't and don't know how many or who will be gone, and never claimed to. What I did know months ago, when you were telling everyone those players (including the guy who was just cut) were "locked in for 2023", that some of them would be gone
I simply pushed back on your delusions that all players under contract for 2023 would be on the team in 2023. You've finally come to the realization that was a fantasy, regardless of the "contracts are facts" mantra you pushed for the last two months.
Yes, I was mistaken in putting Smith in with that list.
There ya go, that's how you're supposed to take your medicine.
According to OTC, the average roster churn for an NFL team from 2013 to 2020 is 56.4% retention. Hard to believe, but that's what they say.
It's really not that hard to believe, if you've paid attention to the NFL for any length of time. It's actually what I and others tried to tell you when you were screaming your "contracts are facts" nonsense. But I'm glad your eyes have now been opened.
But - if any additional players that you've repeatedly claimed were "locked in for 2023" are cut, you can bet your sweet ass I'm going to start "cherry picking" again.
OK, you do that. So your "we have to get younger" Sorry if I took that to mean something different from normal or less than normal roster turnover. I thought you meant there would be more than normal turnover. Not sure how I got that idea, but now that you have clarified it I understand you didn't really mean that. You don't actually know what you meant. Now I understand. Because we are getting younger just by getting rid of Brady, Julio, Brate and Succop. Is that all you were talking about?
Here's my full quote, Biggs, for the record. You deleted part of it. That's not cherry picking? LOLThey'll get younger when Brady moves on. Let's see, take off about 20 years spread over the other 7 guys. That puts the average age down to about 28. There ya go! Problem solved!
But the devil is in the details. Brady will still count $35 mil against the cap from deferred money, so cap problem not solved. And the top nine other players are locked into contracts and can't be cut without significant cap hits. Godwin, Evans, Barrett, Davis, Smith, Vea, Jensen, Gage, and White, all locked in for 2023. Of those, who do you want to get rid of? Don't even bother answering. It doesn't matter, because you can't get rid of them.
Smith is about the only one where there's some wiggle room. You could take an $8 mil cap hit to dump his $18 mil contract. Then go find another left tackle for $10 mil. That's one guy.
But the fact is we're stuck with the same core of players for next year, which isn't a bad thing because other than Smith, who do we really want to get rid of from that group? Those are the best players on the team, not a bunch of dead weight.
But if you're idea is to strip it down, bring in a bunch of young guys and tank the season for a high draft pick.... that won't happen.
So your "we have to get younger"
I never said that, nor did I start this thread. This is yet another strawman you're attempting to build.
Here's my full quote, Biggs, for the record. You deleted part of it. That's not cherry picking? LOL
And here's an even earlier post where you've declared all of the players that will be on the 2023 roster:
I don't think you can call it a rebuild when the 10 highest paid players not named Brady will be back: Godwin, Vea, Barrett, Smith, Evans, Davis, Jensen, David, Gage, Mason.
D. White, Fournette, Wirfs, Succop, Tryon, Nunez-Roches, Hall, Gabbert, Winfield, Goedeke, Trask, R. White, Nunez-Roches, Hainsey, Vaughn, Wirfs, Otton, Camarda, McCollum, Kieft, Dean (franchise tag). All coming back.
Possibly losing: Brady, David, Hicks, Jones, Gholston, Brate, Rudolph, Bunting, Neal, Edwards, Nelson, but we may keep half of those.
So I'd say the turnover will be minimal. Same HC, same GM. You can't call 2023 a rebuild IMO.
The team has already released two of the players you declared were definitely coming back, and at least four others who are currently free agents. I wouldn't be surprised at all if more from list (most of which are still on their rookie contracts) aren't on the roster on Week 1.
These weren't the only two posts where you've made these false declarations, Professor. You aren't very good at this.
You may not have started the thread, but that's the thread about which we are talking and about which you are arguing, Biggs. I guess you don't have your own opinion. It's easy to bash somebody else's opinion when you don't have one of your own to defend.
I guess you don't have your own opinion.
True. I’m known for not being very opinionated.
You may not have started the thread, but that's the thread about which we are talking and about which you are arguing, Biggs.
So, to be clear, you think everyone who posts in any given thread agrees with it’s premise? Sweet Geebus, Professor. I haven’t posted one thing about getting younger.
I’ve told you, and then repeated, my opinion to you multiple times. I’m not responsible for you not being able to grasp what is being discussed.
