Chambliss?!?!?! No effing way. Dude is so freaking old and playing with weapons.
He's an electric QB in college for sure with a great story and easy to root for, but he's not even remotely top 5 talent.
If he was so good he'd have gone pro instead of protesting for another season via a crooked judge.
I'm not fan of Moore as you know, but at least he's younger with room to develop.Â
I look at this drop of QBs and I see good prospects but ultimately nobody is knocking my socks off.Â
They could all be Cam Ward like players.
If I had to pick I'd probably go Mensah in the little I've seen.
He's got a strong, pretty damn accurate arm. Obviously, he can move. High character guy, seems to be a good leader. The age is a factor to consider, yes. But this is only a factor if the guy plays for you for 15 years. If you have a QB you like, the experience isn't a bad thing. And so what if he can play for your for 15 years instead of 20 years. That will be a good problem to have.
I'd want nothing to do with Moore, I don't care how old he is. Mensah is another guy you have to take a serious look at. I'm not pounding the table for Chambliss, but yes - he's a guy you'd have to look at as well.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm arguing more for looking the QB position at #1 than any specific player at the QB position. If none of those guys are worthy of the pick, you gleefully take Jeremiah Smith. Hopefully that makes sense.
lol i think you have a bad take here.Â
The 2017 Super Bowl winner was the Philadelphia Eagles. They changed their coach after that 4 win season and have made the playoffs 5 years in a row, won another Superbowl in that span and their average wins were 12 wins a season during that span. They are 2-1.
Yeah, fair to say pretty bad take.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm arguing more for looking the QB position at #1 than any specific player at the QB position. If none of those guys are worthy of the pick, you gleefully take Jeremiah Smith. Hopefully that makes sense.
I understood what you were saying. Generalizing the position more so than targeting an individual prospect.Â
Completely get it and agree.Â
Again, super early, and things will change (especially with the QB prospects).Â
But, right now, Smith is head and shoulders above the rest.Â
2028 qb class might be just as good as this one as well.Â
Bucs fans have a very skewed version of reality. The Bucs recent path is arguably the norm, maybe even a bit above it.
2017 Super Bowl winner had a 4 win season 3 seasons later
2019 super Bowl winner had a 6 win season 6 season later
2020 Super Bowl winner (Bucs) has a big losing season 6 years later
2021 Super Bowl winner has 5 wins a season later
Almost all of those teams above are considered top teams with tops $ owners, top QBs and top head coaches (Eagles, Rams, Chiefs, Patriots) so if anything the Bucs path has been unexpectedly good up to and including this inevitable fall.
lol i think you have a bad take here.Â
The 2017 Super Bowl winner was the Philadelphia Eagles. They changed their coach after that 4 win season and have made the playoffs 5 years in a row, won another Superbowl in that span and their average wins were 12 wins a season during that span. They are 2-1. Â
the 2019 Super Bowl winner was the Kansas City Chiefs. This is just a laughable comparison. They have made 4 Superbowls in 5 seasons subsequent 2019 including 2 Superbowl championships. They are off to 3-0 start this year as they look to have bounced back.Â
the 2021 Super Bowl winner was the Los Angeles Rams. A down year the following year with starting QB missing half the year. They have made the playoffs each of the last 3 years which includes 3 playoff victories, a championship game appearance and despite a 1-2 record are the Superbowl favorites this year.Â
The Eagles have arguably the best GM in the league and were able to rebuild with new head coach and quarterback. The Chiefs and Rams have the same tandem.
the 2020 Super Bowl winner was the Bucs. Tom Brady, the greatest quarterback of all time, joined the organization. The 10 years prior to that, the Bucs have made the playoffs zero times. Â
Starting in 2023, a new quarterback and head coach tandem, different from the Super Bowl winning squad, were with the organization in which the team has won 2 division titles but basically averaged 9 wins a season. They have won 1 playoff game which was four seasons ago. In their last season, they started out 6-2 and finished 2-7. They are off to an 0-3 start with that head coach/quarterback tandem. The Bucs GM is a top 15 GM, not like the Eagles GM being widely considered the best or call it top 5 at worst. Assuming t he head coach is changed for 2027 season, it's likely the same QB will be the starter.
What's more likely? The Bucs have an Eagles/Chiefs/Rams type trajectory going forward or they revert to PRE Tom Brady decade? I think we all know the answer to that one cuz.Â
LOL. I think you misunderstood the "take?"
The take was that much better teams had a down year after the SB where as the Bucs have been mid until now ie their down year/changing of the guard. Even your first example is change of coach("They changed their coach after that 4 win season"), right? Thats what is happening NOW for the Bucs. And the #10 draft pick for the Eagles, I think? Thats is what is happeniong NOW for the Bucs, right? So, again, my point is that most teams have some kind of rebuild/restructure. The norm is a bump in road, rebuild of some kind, EVEN WITH GREAT COACHES, PLAYERS and GMs.
You are saying (I think) that those teams handled it well, snapped right back and the Bucs will not have the same success? I think that is your point? If so, I agree. But they will do some similar things like hire a new HC. Just like your Eagles, right? Agreed. I am only saying the path has been similar so not really that unexpected and, in fact, the Bucs absolutely expected it . . that is why thy drafted TRASK. The only difference was the Bucs UNEXPECTEDLY got Mayfield, Canales, Coen etc. and so that rebuild didnt have the big dropoff year, until now.
Chambliss?!?!?! No effing way. Dude is so freaking old and playing with weapons.
He's an electric QB in college for sure with a great story and easy to root for, but he's not even remotely top 5 talent.
If he was so good he'd have gone pro instead of protesting for another season via a crooked judge.
I'm not fan of Moore as you know, but at least he's younger with room to develop.Â
I look at this drop of QBs and I see good prospects but ultimately nobody is knocking my socks off.Â
They could all be Cam Ward like players.
If I had to pick I'd probably go Mensah in the little I've seen.
He's got a strong, pretty damn accurate arm. Obviously, he can move. High character guy, seems to be a good leader. The age is a factor to consider, yes. But this is only a factor if the guy plays for you for 15 years. If you have a QB you like, the experience isn't a bad thing. And so what if he can play for your for 15 years instead of 20 years. That will be a good problem to have.
I'd want nothing to do with Moore, I don't care how old he is. Mensah is another guy you have to take a serious look at. I'm not pounding the table for Chambliss, but yes - he's a guy you'd have to look at as well.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm arguing more for looking the QB position at #1 than any specific player at the QB position. If none of those guys are worthy of the pick, you gleefully take Jeremiah Smith. Hopefully that makes sense.
Baker with Smith is better than any QB option imo.
Baker, new OC, offensive head coach... Smith by some miracle.
I don't want to draft a QB early, but if any of the top 5 fall to the 2nd I think the value is there.
Even Moore who I think isn't a great pick... And again not a fan. Hell, Riaola might be the better QB.
Ultimately we know these QBs are all going early... And that's great, let them reach and hopefully that leaves us great prospects on the lines or skill position.
Chambliss in the 2nd, hell yeah. Chambliss top 10 is a hard pass for me.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm arguing more for looking the QB position at #1 than any specific player at the QB position. If none of those guys are worthy of the pick, you gleefully take Jeremiah Smith. Hopefully that makes sense.
I understood what you were saying. Generalizing the position more so than targeting an individual prospect.Â
Completely get it and agree.Â
Again, super early, and things will change (especially with the QB prospects).Â
But, right now, Smith is head and shoulders above the rest.Â
2028 qb class might be just as good as this one as well.Â
I feel like it's implied that you assess all the candidates. I'm not saying you don't do your due diligence. That's their job and implied...
I'm saying Smith is the only true elite blue chip guaranteed star type talent in that group of top 10.
The rest come with massive question marks... And QBs are ALWAYS drafted higher than their grade.
FWIW, I think the highest we end up, is the #3 spot.Â
So, again, Smith could still be there.Â
Bucs fans have a very skewed version of reality. The Bucs recent path is arguably the norm, maybe even a bit above it.
2017 Super Bowl winner had a 4 win season 3 seasons later
2019 super Bowl winner had a 6 win season 6 season later
2020 Super Bowl winner (Bucs) has a big losing season 6 years later
2021 Super Bowl winner has 5 wins a season later
Almost all of those teams above are considered top teams with tops $ owners, top QBs and top head coaches (Eagles, Rams, Chiefs, Patriots) so if anything the Bucs path has been unexpectedly good up to and including this inevitable fall.
lol i think you have a bad take here.Â
The 2017 Super Bowl winner was the Philadelphia Eagles. They changed their coach after that 4 win season and have made the playoffs 5 years in a row, won another Superbowl in that span and their average wins were 12 wins a season during that span. They are 2-1. Â
the 2019 Super Bowl winner was the Kansas City Chiefs. This is just a laughable comparison. They have made 4 Superbowls in 5 seasons subsequent 2019 including 2 Superbowl championships. They are off to 3-0 start this year as they look to have bounced back.Â
the 2021 Super Bowl winner was the Los Angeles Rams. A down year the following year with starting QB missing half the year. They have made the playoffs each of the last 3 years which includes 3 playoff victories, a championship game appearance and despite a 1-2 record are the Superbowl favorites this year.Â
The Eagles have arguably the best GM in the league and were able to rebuild with new head coach and quarterback. The Chiefs and Rams have the same tandem.
the 2020 Super Bowl winner was the Bucs. Tom Brady, the greatest quarterback of all time, joined the organization. The 10 years prior to that, the Bucs have made the playoffs zero times. Â
Starting in 2023, a new quarterback and head coach tandem, different from the Super Bowl winning squad, were with the organization in which the team has won 2 division titles but basically averaged 9 wins a season. They have won 1 playoff game which was four seasons ago. In their last season, they started out 6-2 and finished 2-7. They are off to an 0-3 start with that head coach/quarterback tandem. The Bucs GM is a top 15 GM, not like the Eagles GM being widely considered the best or call it top 5 at worst. Assuming t he head coach is changed for 2027 season, it's likely the same QB will be the starter.
What's more likely? The Bucs have an Eagles/Chiefs/Rams type trajectory going forward or they revert to PRE Tom Brady decade? I think we all know the answer to that one cuz.Â
LOL. I think you misunderstood the "take?"
The take was that much better teams had a down year after the SB where as the Bucs have been mid until now ie their down year/changing of the guard. Even your first example is change of coach("They changed their coach after that 4 win season"), right? Thats what is happening NOW for the Bucs. And the #10 draft pick for the Eagles, I think? Thats is what is happeniong NOW for the Bucs, right? So, again, my point is that most teams have some kind of rebuild/restructure. The norm is a bump in road, rebuild of some kind, EVEN WITH GREAT COACHES, PLAYERS and GMs.
You are saying (I think) that those teams handled it well, snapped right back and the Bucs will not have the same success? I think that is your point? If so, I agree. But they will do some similar things like hire a new HC. Just like your Eagles, right? Agreed. I am only saying the path has been similar so not really that unexpected and, in fact, the Bucs absolutely expected it . . that is why thy drafted TRASK. The only difference was the Bucs UNEXPECTEDLY got Mayfield, Canales, Coen etc. and so that rebuild didnt have the big dropoff year, until now.
i took it that you are comparing the Bucs franchise to some of the best teams in the league. Do i have that right?
Comparing the Bucs to the Eagles is apples and bowling balls. Â
Howie Roseman has been the Eagles GM for 16 seasons. The Eagles have won 2 Super bowls, made it there 3 times, and have been in the playoffs 10 seasons. If you go back to 2017 only, they have made the playoffs 9 out of the last 10 seasons.Â
You tried to compare Licht to Roseman before in a thread about draft picks so that is where i just want to put cold water on it.
The Chiefs, much like the Patriots before them, are a dynasty, and are coached by one of the best of all time or at least a mount Rushmore head coach of all time in Andy Reid. They also have a mount Rushmore QB in Patrick Mahomes.Â
The Rams have one of the best coaches in the game today as well as QB. Their QB is older and their window isn't as large as Chiefs or Eagles but still one of the better run franchises in the game todayÂ
Licht has been the Bucs GM for 12 seasons. Before Brady, the Bucs made the playoffs 0 times in 6 seasons and their highest win total was 9. Throw out the 3 Brady years and you are talking a season high wins of 10. 2 Playoff appearances out of 9 seasons. I wont rule us out yet this year with the "Nobody's coming to save us" slogan
the Bucs Super Bowl win in 2020 was Tom Brady and Tom Brady only. Without him, they dont win. It was a "fluke" or "one hit wonder" due to GOAT joining the squad. Â
But maybe im not sure what point you were trying to make?
The 2020 Bucs may be more closely comparable to the Peyton Manning Broncos. Ironically though the Broncos didnt win a SB when Peyton was good but rather in his "Brady 2022 season" where they managed to win.Â
The Broncos missed the playoffs for the next 8 seasons following their SB and didnt start making it again until year 2 of Sean Payton with now making it the last 2 years with Nix as QB. Still, i dont think anyone is taking the Broncos as a legit SB contender (despite going far with one of the weakest schedules in the league last year, i.e. like the Patriots)
Baker with Smith is better than any QB option imo.
Baker, new OC, offensive head coach... Smith by some miracle.
If Baker has proven anything, it is still that he is consistently inconsistent. That's just who the dude is.
If the position can be improved upon next draft, the organization needs to take advantage of it.
i took it that you are comparing the Bucs franchise to some of the best teams in the league. Do i have that right?
the opposite.
I was saying that even the best teams often follow a post SB path that incudes a let down season or some kind of recalculation.
In 2021 everyone here EXPECTED that exact type of "regression to the mean" FOR THE BUCS. Proof is the Trask pick and Licht's comments about the same.Â
And the "regression to the mean" reality made sense to any football fan because that is sort of how the NFL works if you are not armed with someone like Mahomes and Reid etc.
In fact, today's "woe is me" criers were yesterday's "Bowles is incompetent" and "playoffs are meaningless" so they cant be surprised, right? The surprise - if any - was 2023 and 2024 playoffs. Regression to the mean is the norm. The Super Bowl Patriots are 1-3 and their QB looks mortal. Vrabel was Coach of the Year last year, right? The 2002 Bucs were a "dynasty" that went 7-9 the next year. The 2021 Bucs were good, but then bounced out of the playoffs early. Baker Mayfield is not Tom Brady. Otton is not Gronk. LVD was 36. Evans is 30+ and gone. AB, gone. All regressing to the mean.
To think an "incompetent" Bowles and Licht would outperform the Eagles or the Chiefs or even the Rams (who are struggling as an all-star team at the moment)post-SB performances is absurd, so this is NOT the end of the world or even a surprise. Its more norm than anything. Maybe a "Bad Dream Deferred," so to speak because it didnt happen in 2023 and 2024.
The Broncos missed the playoffs for the next 8 seasons following their SB and didnt start making it again until year 2 of Sean Payton with now making it the last 2 years with Nix as QB
The norm. ^^^^ right up to and including the shipping out of a key SB veteran and the hiring of a new coach.
FWIW, I think the highest we end up, is the #3 spot.Â
So, again, Smith could still be there.Â
A boy can dream but it seems too good to be trueÂ
Baker with Smith is better than any QB option imo.
Baker, new OC, offensive head coach... Smith by some miracle.
If Baker has proven anything, it is still that he is consistently inconsistent. That's just who the dude is.
If the position can be improved upon next draft, the organization needs to take advantage of it.
I don't disagree I'm saying he needs a Coen type coach to be closer to something good/consistent.
He needs a true wr1 he can lob it up to and not 3 #2s
He needs a line that can block
If you get him a new offensive coaching staff + a true wr1 he can perform as a top 10 QB zero doubt in my mind.
