I'm not saying he sucks , he's a good player for sureIs he overpaid ?? Yes.Is he probably not the best fit because we already have one wr ( VJAX) who does all the same things he does but better?? Yes.Is he probably not a guy you should lock up to big money long-term because of his immature unreliable attitude ?? Yes.
Curious to see how much of this changes if we could get something resembling a home run threat in the slot. Hard to argue with any of that...but I think if we add Watkins in the slot and something resembling an NFL tight end...the sidelines open up a lot more for both VJAX and MWill.
Hamstring injuries are a sign of not being in shape.
That's just not true. You can look at Mike and see he's in shape. People with hamstring injuries are usually a result of some imbalance between the hip flexors and extensors.
Hamstring injuries are a sign of not being in shape.
That's just not true. You can look at Mike and see he's in shape. People with hamstring injuries are usually a result of some imbalance between the hip flexors and extensors.
Don't confuse him with facts.
A few points: 1.) Saying so-and-so many wide receivers had more yards than Williams while making less money is disingenuous because pretty much all of them are wage-controlled rookie contracts. In another year or so Dez Bryant, AJ Green, Julio Jones, DeMaryius Thomas, and others will be making a crap ton more than Williams. 2.) At his peak, Williams catches balls as a rate of 15 YPR, so it's pretty remarkable he's been as close to 1,000 yards as he's been while only catching 60 passes per year. Lots of other receivers need a lot more passes than that to get to 1,000 yards. A receiver with a 12 YPR average needs 80 passes to get to 1,000 yards. That means the Bucs gets the same 1,000 yards from their receiver while getting an extra 20 plays to give the ball to someone else.
A few points: 1.) Saying so-and-so many wide receivers had more yards than Williams while making less money is disingenuous because pretty much all of them are wage-controlled rookie contracts. In another year or so Dez Bryant, AJ Green, Julio Jones, DeMaryius Thomas, and others will be making a crap ton more than Williams. 2.) At his peak, Williams catches balls as a rate of 15 YPR, so it's pretty remarkable he's been as close to 1,000 yards as he's been while only catching 60 passes per year. Lots of other receivers need a lot more passes than that to get to 1,000 yards. A receiver with a 12 YPR average needs 80 passes to get to 1,000 yards. That means the Bucs gets the same 1,000 yards from their receiver while getting an extra 20 plays to give the ball to someone else.
+1...good post FRG
Mike Williams isn't very good. Yes he ALMOST got to a 1000 yards. No getting 4 more yards wouldn't make him better but it does show that he's not a guy who is really all that special. He's clearly not the 17th best WR in the league to go back to the theme of this thread.The problem is what is it he does well? He's a bad route runner, a guy with suspect hands, he doesn't give you much RAC. He is a guy with good body control and field awareness to make some catches on questionable throws. His value with Freeman was a lot higher than it will be with a decent QB because what he did jumping and contorting for balls was a big help to Josh but QB's who can actually hit a target want a guy to be in a spot when they need them in a spot.He is a guy who really should be a third WR not even a second and in that role he gets even more overpaid.
I don't see it because Mike Williams seems like more than a capable #2 based on his production and what he excels at are go routes and slants (Glennon hit him many times).. James Jones and Golden Tate are unrestricted free agents and it wouldn't surprise me if both are paid more than what Mike Williams' received.
Including this upcoming year, 2014....Mikes 5th year....he will have made $12.4M. That is an average of $2.4M per year over his first 5 years.......and some how we over paid? Some of you guys are clueless. IF he stays focused and does everything right and has a great year, then he can make $6.8M in 2015. If he does get in trouble or slack off or have a disappointing year...we can cut him or trade him with very little cap repercussions. If he continues to play well and stay focused and earn it, he can make $7.2M in 2016 and $7.5M in 2017....but that isn't money he has made and it is not guaranteed. He has to earn it. In 2018 he is scheduled to make $8.75M. That will likely never happen unless Mike breaks out and proves himself to be a #1. It's more likely he will restructure by then or be cut. The final year of his deal, as with many deals, is inflated to make the overall yearly average bigger and therefore give the appearance of a bigger contract. It's smoke and mirrors used by every GM for over two decades now. Without that false & final 6th year, Mike actually got a 5 year deal that averages $6.1M/yr. But as I pointed out, that is not guaranteed and has to be earned. All he has made up to this point is that $2.4M/yr....and anyone who thinks that is overpayment for a WR of Mike's caliber, has no idea what they are talking about.Also, thanks for the 5th thread on this topic. It was needed.
JDub, thanks for the rationale on the contracts, that makes this make a lot more sense, and with those numbers, obviously he is not overpaid. Also, DJ, your argument about not needing him when his skills match VJax's, rather than compliments them is not the best argument either, because in this league, we need quality depth at all positions on the roster. We saw this especially last year when MW went down and the rest of our receivers(other than the occasional play from Kid &Play) couldn't do jack. Watching some of the offenses in the league with more than 2 good receivers, makes me think that stockpiling good receivers is not a bad thing.
Mike Williams isn't very good. Yes he ALMOST got to a 1000 yards. No getting 4 more yards wouldn't make him better but it does show that he's not a guy who is really all that special. He's clearly not the 17th best WR in the league to go back to the theme of this thread.The problem is what is it he does well? He's a bad route runner, a guy with suspect hands, he doesn't give you much RAC. He is a guy with good body control and field awareness to make some catches on questionable throws. His value with Freeman was a lot higher than it will be with a decent QB because what he did jumping and contorting for balls was a big help to Josh but QB's who can actually hit a target want a guy to be in a spot when they need them in a spot.He is a guy who really should be a third WR not even a second and in that role he gets even more overpaid.
No, he doesn't get open. He and VJax are, again, guys who are "perfect" in an "All About 5" scenario where you can throw to them covered or not. Makes reading and throwing a lot easier...but they both feed into the inconsistency of an offense. Where the crazy throw gets caught you look great when they can't circus it up your offense is DOA.He seems pretty slow too....he never gets any separation from the DB. He doesn't really offer us anything that VJAX can't do better. We'd have been better served trading him while he had a cheap contract and his off the field issues weren't public and then putting a quick speedy YAC guy opposite Vjax. We desperately need someone on this offense who can get YAC.
yeah this guy can't run routes and is slow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZW7nEpOkiM and this guy doesn't get separation
and this guy has suspect hands and is slow
and this guy is slow and can't get open
some of ya'll just need somethin to talk about... like a bunch of old hens
With mw and vj, if we could at least have a qb of ryan's stature, we would be doing much better.Hopefully lovie and staff won't get a hardon for glennon and waste our time. We need a actual good qb.
He's a solid #2 WR and paid accordingly. Move along, there's nothing to see here!
A few points: 1.) Saying so-and-so many wide receivers had more yards than Williams while making less money is disingenuous because pretty much all of them are wage-controlled rookie contracts. In another year or so Dez Bryant, AJ Green, Julio Jones, DeMaryius Thomas, and others will be making a crap ton more than Williams. 2.) At his peak, Williams catches balls as a rate of 15 YPR, so it's pretty remarkable he's been as close to 1,000 yards as he's been while only catching 60 passes per year. Lots of other receivers need a lot more passes than that to get to 1,000 yards. A receiver with a 12 YPR average needs 80 passes to get to 1,000 yards. That means the Bucs gets the same 1,000 yards from their receiver while getting an extra 20 plays to give the ball to someone else.
Including this upcoming year, 2014....Mikes 5th year....he will have made $12.4M. That is an average of $2.4M per year over his first 5 years.......and some how we over paid? Some of you guys are clueless. IF he stays focused and does everything right and has a great year, then he can make $6.8M in 2015. If he does get in trouble or slack off or have a disappointing year...we can cut him or trade him with very little cap repercussions. If he continues to play well and stay focused and earn it, he can make $7.2M in 2016 and $7.5M in 2017....but that isn't money he has made and it is not guaranteed. He has to earn it. In 2018 he is scheduled to make $8.75M. That will likely never happen unless Mike breaks out and proves himself to be a #1. It's more likely he will restructure by then or be cut. The final year of his deal, as with many deals, is inflated to make the overall yearly average bigger and therefore give the appearance of a bigger contract. It's smoke and mirrors used by every GM for over two decades now. Without that false & final 6th year, Mike actually got a 5 year deal that averages $6.1M/yr. But as I pointed out, that is not guaranteed and has to be earned. All he has made up to this point is that $2.4M/yr....and anyone who thinks that is overpayment for a WR of Mike's caliber, has no idea what they are talking about.Also, thanks for the 5th thread on this topic. It was needed.
Thank goodness for some damn sense. Thank you both.Also, IIRC, before Mike got his deal most here were screaming, "PAY DA MAN!"Most also said that his deal was good...fair...Now? He's overpaid?Got it. lol
He's a solid #2 WR and paid accordingly. Move along, there's nothing to see here!
Yep. And while some of his behavior is worrisome, until he actually screws up....it's all hearsay.
btw. Good post doug.
He's a solid #2 WR and paid accordingly. Move along, there's nothing to see here!
Yep. And while some of his behavior is worrisome, until he actually screws up....it's all hearsay.
Even then I could careless what he does on his own time as long as he performs on the field.
