Agree, while I’m sure I haven’t looked as closely as Biggsy, by watching the last couple of games, I have come around to the idea that Barton’s play is greatly impacted by the two guards we’ve deployed.Barton isn't an NFL center.
This is such a piss poor take.
Eye ball test, stats, PFF all say different.
Maybe we can convert him to guard and/or our multi-purposed depth piece.
He's not an NFL center...
The cumulative PFF grade has been addressed multiple times.
What stats?
The eyeball test is passing. I’ve keyed in on him the last two games, because of you and the Red Board GM saying he was bad. He has been the opposite of bad. The dudes beside him suck, but he’s been very, very good with hardly any negative plays. He’s had about as many negative plays as Wirfs. He’s been good. Give me the timestamps from the last two games where he’s had negative plays. The Red Board GM failed when challenged. I’d like to see what you’re talking about.
Barton isn't an NFL center.
This is such a piss poor take.
Eye ball test, stats, PFF all say different.
Maybe we can convert him to guard and/or our multi-purposed depth piece.
He's not an NFL center...
The cumulative PFF grade has been addressed multiple times.
What stats?
The eyeball test is passing. I’ve keyed in on him the last two games, because of you and the Red Board GM saying he was bad. He has been the opposite of bad. The dudes beside him suck, but he’s been very, very good with hardly any negative plays. He’s had about as many negative plays as Wirfs. He’s been good. Give me the timestamps from the last two games where he’s had negative plays. The Red Board GM failed when challenged. I’d like to see what you’re talking about.
I'm on vacation in Europe so I'm not gonna go break down film but some quick Google searches:
He's had 8 accepted penalties this year (38th per pff)
I'm not some PFF honk but they have him rated very low:
32nd ranked center out of 40
36th for pass blocking
26th for run blocking
5 sacks allowed which is 38th
PR wrote this up:
https://www.pewterreport.com/graham-barton-progress-year-two/
He plays small (yes I know you posted height weight) but his arms are short and he isn't strong.
PFF suggests moving him to guard and I would agree. Breadson to center maybe...
In summary: at BEST he's an average NFL lineman that we took in the first round. Bad value for a center/guard position at his performance set.
At worst, he's been a turnstile filled with timely bad penalties and a knack for shit snaps at inopportune times.
Not what you expect from a first round pick.
I'm not some PFF honk but they have him rated very low:
32nd ranked center out of 40
36th for pass blocking
26th for run blocking
5 sacks allowed which is 38th
PR wrote this up:
https://www.pewterreport.com/graham-barton-progress-year-two/
He plays small (yes I know you posted height weight) but his arms are short and he isn't strong.
PFF suggests moving him to guard and I would agree. Breadson to center maybe...
In summary: at BEST he's an average NFL lineman that we took in the first round. Bad value for a center/guard position at his performance set.
At worst, he's been a turnstile filled with timely bad penalties and a knack for shit snaps at inopportune times.
Not what you expect from a first round pick.
I suppose I'll have break the PFF thing down again...
The grade you keep referencing is cumulative. The grades, the sacks, and the penalties include 209 snaps played at Left Tackle this season. A Center has played over 20% of snaps this season at Left Tackle. As you could imagine, the Center didn't grade out playing very well at Left Tackle. As you could imagine, the Center playing Left Tackle had some penalties. As you could imagine, the Center playing Left Tackle gave up some sacks.
The article you posted by Quiepo backs this stuff up. He didn't play well at LT. Moving back to Center after playing Left Tackle wasn't very smooth, understandably. But his play has been good the last few weeks. The Center playing Center is playing very well recently. If you could point to some actual, repeated evidence otherwise, I would be happy to look at it. But I've been watching the guy. He's been the second best OL on the team, as Goedeke has spiraled as of late. Both Guards beside him are getting beaten on the reg, either straight up, missing stunts, etc..
I don't really care if he moves to Guard, as I'm not saying he's an All-Pro Center. I'm just saying he isn't as bad as you and the Red Board GM would like to pretend. He's a good Offensive Lineman. Being tossed out to Left Tackle for 200+ snaps and not being a complete embarrassment of a turnstile, like an actual NFL OT in Charlie Heck, is further proof of that.
I for the life of me cannot understand how anyone can so shamelessly support retaining Bowles as the Bucs HC. Knuckleheads. They are entitled to their opinion, but so am I. Many of us have discussed all his shortcomings as nauseum for the past few years. 8-9. 9-8. 10-7. 7-8. 1-3. 35-35. What's so damn special about winning the NFCS? And then get mowed down in the playoffs by superior opponents with superior coaching. Fan frustration is reaching a fever pitch. The search for a new Bucs HC has been ongoing for the past several weeks. It's clear that change is in the air.
Bucs Coaching Staff Day of Reckoning 1/5/26.
Maybe the Bucs will smarten up and not pass on Klint Kubiak this time around.
I'm not some PFF honk but they have him rated very low:
32nd ranked center out of 40
36th for pass blocking
26th for run blocking
5 sacks allowed which is 38th
PR wrote this up:
https://www.pewterreport.com/graham-barton-progress-year-two/
He plays small (yes I know you posted height weight) but his arms are short and he isn't strong.
PFF suggests moving him to guard and I would agree. Breadson to center maybe...
In summary: at BEST he's an average NFL lineman that we took in the first round. Bad value for a center/guard position at his performance set.
At worst, he's been a turnstile filled with timely bad penalties and a knack for shit snaps at inopportune times.
Not what you expect from a first round pick.
I suppose I'll have break the PFF thing down again...
The grade you keep referencing is cumulative. The grades, the sacks, and the penalties include 209 snaps played at Left Tackle this season. A Center has played over 20% of snaps this season at Left Tackle. As you could imagine, the Center didn't grade out playing very well at Left Tackle. As you could imagine, the Center playing Left Tackle had some penalties. As you could imagine, the Center playing Left Tackle gave up some sacks.
The article you posted by Quiepo backs this stuff up. He didn't play well at LT. Moving back to Center after playing Left Tackle wasn't very smooth, understandably. But his play has been good the last few weeks. The Center playing Center is playing very well recently. If you could point to some actual, repeated evidence otherwise, I would be happy to look at it. But I've been watching the guy. He's been the second best OL on the team, as Goedeke has spiraled as of late. Both Guards beside him are getting beaten on the reg, either straight up, missing stunts, etc..
I don't really care if he moves to Guard, as I'm not saying he's an All-Pro Center. I'm just saying he isn't as bad as you and the Red Board GM would like to pretend. He's a good Offensive Lineman. Being tossed out to Left Tackle for 200+ snaps and not being a complete embarrassment of a turnstile, like an actual NFL OT in Charlie Heck, is further proof of that.
He's versatile, that was always one of his greatest strengths... But that means nothing if he struggles at LT.
I don't remember him being that bad at LT but it's a bit of a blur. The opening game vs the falcons I recall him being solid.
Didn't he play 3 games total? So 3 out of 15 games does alter his grade but not enough to say he's anything more than the bottom third at best.
It's possible my assessment is exaggerated but you have to admit, for a first rounder he's not living up the how draft position. I'd expect him to be a top 15 center at the very least if he's drafted in the first round.
And yes having both guards around him struggling is a good point but he's still part of all the inside pressure issues regardless of our guards.
He needs to be better. Hopefully he improves and I'm wrong or he swings over to guard.
But I'm just not seeing him as anything more than a bottom third center taken in the first round.
I for the life of me cannot understand how anyone can so shamelessly support retaining Bowles as the Bucs HC. Knuckleheads. They are entitled to their opinion, but so am I. Many of us have discussed all his shortcomings as nauseum for the past few years. 8-9. 9-8. 10-7. 7-8. 1-3. 35-35. What's so damn special about winning the NFCS? And then get mowed down in the playoffs by superior opponents with superior coaching. Fan frustration is reaching a fever pitch. The search for a new Bucs HC has been ongoing for the past several weeks. It's clear that change is in the air.
Bucs Coaching Staff Day of Reckoning 1/5/26.
Maybe the Bucs will smarten up and not pass on Klint Kubiak this time around.
The only legit devil's advocate argument in favor or Bowles is that Licht consistently ignored the defense for 5 years and when he did address it, he whiffed.
Bowles needs to go but some of these draft picks are a fucking joke from Licht.
Trading back for Logan Hall who's a tweener inside and plays too high.
Braswell is a clone of Spence.
Diaby is a solid but he's a rotational player
Kancey gets mauled inside and can't stay healthy
3.5 misses on the d-line while completely ignoring LB since drafting Devin White.
And I like Licht secondary picks but we are 5 deep at corner with no LB... And defenses went straight after the middle of the field against David and Dennis and whatever random ass end Bowles drops in coverage.
He's versatile, that was always one of his greatest strengths... But that means nothing if he struggles at LT.
There's been a lot of Centers that have played in this league. I can't think of one other instance where a starting NFL Center was tasked with kicking out to Left Tackle for 200 snaps. Can you? Guards will do it on the rarest of occasions (Joe Thuney in KC was the last I recall) but I can't think of a Center kicking out to LT.
My point being, I'm not sure it's altogether fair to hold his play at LT against him. That fact that he could do it at all is a testament to him.
It's possible my assessment is exaggerated but you have to admit, for a first rounder he's not living up the how draft position. I'd expect him to be a top 15 center at the very least if he's drafted in the first round.
After watching every snap of his the last two games, I would say he is a top-15 Center. He has been really good.
But let's be real here, you were never on-board with Barton since draft day. You were pretty heavy on JPJ. So if JPJ was the selection at #26, would you rate his play thus far in the NFL as living up to his draft position at 26th overall? Between having to move positions and the injuries, I'm curious as to what you're answer would be.
He's versatile, that was always one of his greatest strengths... But that means nothing if he struggles at LT.
There's been a lot of Centers that have played in this league. I can't think of one other instance where a starting NFL Center was tasked with kicking out to Left Tackle for 200 snaps. Can you? Guards will do it on the rarest of occasions (Joe Thuney in KC was the last I recall) but I can't think of a Center kicking out to LT.
My point being, I'm not sure it's altogether fair to hold his play at LT against him. That fact that he could do it at all is a testament to him.
It's possible my assessment is exaggerated but you have to admit, for a first rounder he's not living up the how draft position. I'd expect him to be a top 15 center at the very least if he's drafted in the first round.
After watching every snap of his the last two games, I would say he is a top-15 Center. He has been really good.
But let's be real here, you were never on-board with Barton since draft day. You were pretty heavy on JPJ. So if JPJ was the selection at #26, would you rate his play thus far in the NFL as living up to his draft position at 26th overall? Between having to move positions and the injuries, I'm curious as to what you're answer would be.
I think JPJ isbetter but it's hard to assess how good he's been. Raiders moved him to guard. The last game I saw him he was playing great then got hurt and I think he got placed on season ending IR. Since that injury the Raiders have been atrocious at creating lanes for Jeanty.
The raiders have arguably the worst line in the NFL so I'm not entirely sure how to grade him. His PFF isn't flattering.
JPJ was taken much later too... Like it or not, where they are drafted affects expectations.
I for the life of me cannot understand how anyone can so shamelessly support retaining Bowles as the Bucs HC. Knuckleheads. They are entitled to their opinion, but so am I. Many of us have discussed all his shortcomings as nauseum for the past few years. 8-9. 9-8. 10-7. 7-8. 1-3. 35-35. What's so damn special about winning the NFCS? And then get mowed down in the playoffs by superior opponents with superior coaching. Fan frustration is reaching a fever pitch. The search for a new Bucs HC has been ongoing for the past several weeks. It's clear that change is in the air.
Bucs Coaching Staff Day of Reckoning 1/5/26.
Maybe the Bucs will smarten up and not pass on Klint Kubiak this time around.
Roster is overrated, there are severe deficiencies. We lack elite players and have too many bad players.
AI Overview
Round 2 - Pick 12: Jackson Powers-Johnson, C, Oregon (Las ...
Jackson Powers-Johnson (JPJ) has been excellent since being drafted by the Raiders in 2024, quickly becoming a starter and earning All-Rookie Team honors, showing dominant potential with his physical play, high motor, and versatility, though he faced scrutiny over penalties and position debates, establishing himself as a key building block for the Raiders' O-line by mid-2025 before an injury sidelined him.
Rookie Year (2024)
Immediate Impact: Drafted 44th overall in 2024, JPJ was expected to start and delivered, playing in 15 games and starting 14, even earning All-Rookie Team recognition.
Versatility: He played multiple spots on the offensive line, impressing coaches with his readiness and impact, especially at center.
Pancake Blocks: Known for his powerful, physical style, he was synonymous with "pancake blocks," even receiving gifts from Nutella for it.
Early 2025 Season
Full-Time Center: He started the 2025 season as the primary center, a position many felt suited him best, even winning the Rimington Trophy (best college center) in 2023.
High Praise: Analysts considered him a potential top center in the league and a foundational piece for the Raiders due to his work ethic and dominant play.
Injury: His breakout year was interrupted when he suffered an ankle injury in Week 10, leading to a stint on injured reserve.
Overall Assessment
Elite Prospect: JPJ was a top-tier prospect known for dominating in college and quickly translated that to the NFL with high-end blocking skills.
Work Ethic: His relentless motor and drive to be the best are major highlights.
Future Potential: Despite some penalty concerns and position debates (guard vs. center), he's viewed as a cornerstone for the Raiders, with high expectations for his development as a top NFL center.
Same question but with Barton
AI Overview
Graham Barton, the Buccaneers' 2024 first-round pick, has shown significant promise and versatility in his NFL career so far, starting at center and even filling in at left tackle due to injuries, with analysts praising his potential and leadership despite some early rookie mistakes, like occasional miscommunications or snap issues, ultimately seen as a strong, flexible piece for the Bucs' offensive line with an "arrow up" trajectory.
Rookie Year (2024 Season):
Started at Center: Drafted to play center, Barton stepped in and started there for the Bucs.
Versatility Shines: When All-Pro left tackle Tristan Wirfs was injured, Barton capably filled in at left tackle for several games, demonstrating valuable flexibility.
Mixed Grades: Pro Football Focus (PFF) gave him solid but not elite grades for a rookie center, though some, like JoeBucsFan.com and Pewter Report, felt his play was better than his numbers suggested, with room to grow.
Rookie Mistakes: He made typical rookie errors, including some bad snaps, but these are viewed as learning experiences.
Overall Assessment:
High Potential: Many observers, including coaches and media, see Barton as a future star and a core piece of the Bucs' O-line.
Leadership: He's recognized as a leader and communicator on the offensive front.
Solid Foundation: Despite the learning curve and position shifts, he's considered a strong first-round pick with a bright future, with his performance improving as he gains more NFL experience.
I think JPJ isbetter but it's hard to assess how good he's been. Raiders moved him to guard. The last game I saw him he was playing great then got hurt and I think he got placed on season ending IR. Since that injury the Raiders have been atrocious at creating lanes for Jeanty.
The raiders have arguably the worst line in the NFL so I'm not entirely sure how to grade him. His PFF isn't flattering.
JPJ was taken much later too... Like it or not, where they are drafted affects expectations.
I may not have been clear enough, so I'll try to be more clear:
If JPJ was drafted by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as the 26th overall selection as you were advocating, would his play thus far in the NFL (wasn't good enough at Center - on a shitty OL, as you correctly pointed out - and missed significant time) justify the 26th overall selection?
Barton’s play is greatly impacted by the two guards we’ve deployed.
This is the point. If you were making a judgment on Barton based on this year you'd have to adjust your gauge to account for the two Gs. That doesn't mean he's an "NFL Center," but it certainly means everyone should withhold judgment.
I for the life of me cannot understand how anyone can so shamelessly support retaining Bowles as the Bucs HC
Is there anyone that "shamelessly" supports retaining Bowles? I am probably the most outspoken here about Bowles and I am only a "good for the current situation" guy who has said he's lost the team and, strikingly, the defense so its time to move on.
I think WT is maybe a "be careful what you ask for" person, a point I agree with and that any long-term Bucs fan would understand.
I can see the circumstances under which they would retain him, which I think is Ronde's point, but I doubt the team wins out, let alone makes the playoffs.
Just dont see anyone shamelessly supporting retaining Bowles?
I think JPJ isbetter but it's hard to assess how good he's been. Raiders moved him to guard. The last game I saw him he was playing great then got hurt and I think he got placed on season ending IR. Since that injury the Raiders have been atrocious at creating lanes for Jeanty.
The raiders have arguably the worst line in the NFL so I'm not entirely sure how to grade him. His PFF isn't flattering.
JPJ was taken much later too... Like it or not, where they are drafted affects expectations.
I may not have been clear enough, so I'll try to be more clear:
If JPJ was drafted by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as the 26th overall selection as you were advocating, would his play thus far in the NFL (wasn't good enough at Center - on a shitty OL, as you correctly pointed out - and missed significant time) justify the 26th overall selection?
Yes, because he's a better player and has played better despite having even worse players around him and worse coaching/development.
But the margin isn't substantial
