Yeah he should just be a DC then. Not only does the offense suck, we are top 10 in most penalized teams in the NFL too.Bucs defense is now 6th in EPA
Offense is now 31st
Baker is 45th out of 47 QBs
Hand picked this shitty OC, this QB and we have zero discipline. Jets Bowles is so back
Yeah he should just be a DC then. Not only does the offense suck, we are top 10 in most penalized teams in the NFL too.Bucs defense is now 6th in EPA
Offense is now 31st
Baker is 45th out of 47 QBs
Hand picked this shitty OC, this QB and we have zero discipline. Jets Bowles is so back
Nothing is Bowles fault.Â
Wait until we play a real offense at full strength.
Jfc it'll be a blood bathÂ
So we are trying to fault Robinson for working with a dogshit QB. i get it but the players need to execute too.Â
Baker missed several throws yesterday that a QB should make. You could see Egbuka's frustration.Â
But, Robinson did not do basic things to keep the Viking defense off balance, like screens, draws, jet sweeps etc. Basic stuff an OC does when facing a high pressure defense. he tried to use Otton over Egbuka and Godwin etc.
But he did exclusively run on first down every time.
The one time he did PA it was a big gain. That's somethingÂ
Yeah he should just be a DC then. Not only does the offense suck, we are top 10 in most penalized teams in the NFL too.Bucs defense is now 6th in EPA
Offense is now 31st
Baker is 45th out of 47 QBs
Hand picked this shitty OC, this QB and we have zero discipline. Jets Bowles is so back
Nothing is Bowles fault.Â
Wait until we play a real offense at full strength.
Jfc it'll be a blood bathÂ
the defense is ass. I don't understand JC's point here. It seems like he's trying to suggest Bowles is doing a good job on that side of the ball while we have other posters on the opposite end which will find anyway possible to make the defense the main culprit because it's a direct extension of Bowles.Â
Listen the Bucs are in the midst of a 2-10 slide.Â
the first 3 games were against NE, BUF, and LAR. Let's just chalk that up to the Bucs being a mid team as they've done in the past under Bowles where they basically just beat up on shit teams with a few impressive wins (GB,Jax in 23, LAC in 24)
So at 6-5, the Bucs then went 2-4 to end the year against teams they should have beat.Â
W Arizona 20-17 - Defense inspired win
L New Orleans 24-20 -Â you had 17 points late in the 4th on this team? Really offense?Â
L Carolina 23-20 - Need to score 23 to meet league average. Offense sucked
L Atlanta 29-28 - 3rd and 28th! Defense sucked
L Miami 20-17 - fuckin 10 points late in the 4th with no timeouts only for a garbage time TD. Offense sucked.Â
W Carolina 16-14 - Defense inspired win
--------------------------------------------------------------
L CINCY 33-27 - Defense scored a TD, offense gave up a TD and through other turnovers short fields. They played a top 5 QB and basically gave up 23 points. Offense sucked
L CLE 23-19 - Offense couldn't put up 23 points? they sucked. Defense gave up shit TD but again, 23 points is average
L MIN 23-16 - Offense couldn't put up 23 points? Baker turnover set up a free 3 points and special teams gave up a TD. Offense sucked.
so there's been 1 constant in the last 9 gamesÂ
Offense sucked - 8 games
Offense mid - 1 game (Atlanta game)
Offense good- 0 games (any games with over 30 points?)
--------------------------------------------------
Defense sucked - 1 game (Atlanta game, 3rd and 28! gatzooks)
Defense mid - 4 games (NO, CAR, CIN, CLE) - defense played mid enough for the game to be won.Â
Defense good- 4 games (ARZ, Miami, Carolina, MIN)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
this is NOT an endorsement of Bowles but it appears the D can show up occasionally where the offense has been helpless
it appears the D can show up occasionally where the offense has been helpless
Not sure that anyone denies that, but some posters are "all or nothing" so Bowles is bad for all things. The defense played well yesterday, including against 2 time pro bowl TE. The "all or nothing" group will say "Viking have a bad offense" or "Jefferson injured." Bowles is the DC when the offense plays well, the HC when the offense plays poorly etc.
He's the HC so its all on him either way.
it appears the D can show up occasionally where the offense has been helpless
Not sure that anyone denies that, but some posters are "all or nothing" so Bowles is bad for all things. The defense played well yesterday, including against 2 time pro bowl TE. The "all or nothing" group will say "Viking have a bad offense" or "Jefferson injured." Bowles is the DC when the offense plays well, the HC when the offense plays poorly etc.
He's the HC so its all on him either way.
i'm with you. it would appear to me that JC is the only poster that was still supporting Bowles after the collapse last year.
but let's not let obvious "why the fuck is Bowles still here" hatred cloud our judgement elsewhere...
otherwise, ok, you replace the head coach, but you are still left with the same issues elsewhere, mainly a struggling offense.
for them to invest that money in Baker, one would think they would want to try and "fix him" and the only way to do that would be to try and replicate Coen magic or get an offensive minded coordinator to be head coach. but like a good one that is dominating this year and actually calls the plays. Too early to make a call after 3 games as most of the dominate teams have their head coach calling the offense - Joe Brady, Ben Johnson, Zac Taylor, Liam Coen, Andy Reid, Sean McVay, Klint Kubiak, Kyle Shanahan.
look at what Kubiak is doing with Cousins. Â
Bucs defense is now 6th in EPA
Offense is now 31st
Baker is 45th out of 47 QBs
Bowles fired Grizzard because he didn't want to manage the offense so what is Robinson doing? It looks like Bowles is stealing paychecks like Robinson.
We hyped up Robinson because of course he had to be better than Grizz...came from McVay coaching tree and was an OC before. But the fact of the matter is...he had some great supporting weapons to work with in Atlanta, would argue easily better RB, WR#1, and TE than in Tampa and he was mid at best with that group.Â
Look what Cousins is doing in Vegas with Kubiak!
that being said, Baker has been broken since the Seattle 38-35 win to get the Bucs to 5-1 last year. He had 12 TDs to 1 INT at that point. He has been arguably non-starter worthy since then outside of a few games like Buffalo (Turnovers matched TDs but offense put up 32), New England (3 TDs! but had to put up a garbage time TD to get the team to 23 points and within 1 score with no timeouts left) and Atlanta Prime Time (had more TDs than turnovers and led offense to at least 23 points - the only game in the last 14 he's been able to do that)
So we are trying to fault Robinson for working with a dogshit QB. i get it but the players need to execute too.Â
Coen must be thanking his lucky stars the Bucs didnt offer him the Bucs gig. Lawrence > BakerÂ
I watched several Atlanta games last year. Bijan turned simple dump offs into big gains regularly by making defenders miss. Without Bijan and London Atlanta's offense was dead in the water led by Robinson.
it appears the D can show up occasionally where the offense has been helpless
Not sure that anyone denies that, but some posters are "all or nothing" so Bowles is bad for all things. The defense played well yesterday, including against 2 time pro bowl TE. The "all or nothing" group will say "Viking have a bad offense" or "Jefferson injured." Bowles is the DC when the offense plays well, the HC when the offense plays poorly etc.
He's the HC so its all on him either way.
I'll raise my hand here.
First, the Vikings were playing with a lead and went hyper conservative because with confidence they felt they could stop the Bucs. That proved to be true.
There were a handful of "stops" that were simply throws with zero chance.Â
Neither team played well. Vikings lose this game to any other team.
It's not that the defense didn't play well it's that it looked better than it was because Vikings lost Jefferson, had the game script, and Murray whiffed on multiple throws.Â
Yeah he should just be a DC then. Not only does the offense suck, we are top 10 in most penalized teams in the NFL too.Bucs defense is now 6th in EPA
Offense is now 31st
Baker is 45th out of 47 QBs
Hand picked this shitty OC, this QB and we have zero discipline. Jets Bowles is so back
Nothing is Bowles fault.Â
Wait until we play a real offense at full strength.
Jfc it'll be a blood bathÂ
the defense is ass. I don't understand JC's point here. It seems like he's trying to suggest Bowles is doing a good job on that side of the ball while we have other posters on the opposite end which will find anyway possible to make the defense the main culprit because it's a direct extension of Bowles.Â
Listen the Bucs are in the midst of a 2-10 slide.Â
the first 3 games were against NE, BUF, and LAR. Let's just chalk that up to the Bucs being a mid team as they've done in the past under Bowles where they basically just beat up on shit teams with a few impressive wins (GB,Jax in 23, LAC in 24)
So at 6-5, the Bucs then went 2-4 to end the year against teams they should have beat.Â
W Arizona 20-17 - Defense inspired win
L New Orleans 24-20 -Â you had 17 points late in the 4th on this team? Really offense?Â
L Carolina 23-20 - Need to score 23 to meet league average. Offense sucked
L Atlanta 29-28 - 3rd and 28th! Defense sucked
L Miami 20-17 - fuckin 10 points late in the 4th with no timeouts only for a garbage time TD. Offense sucked.Â
W Carolina 16-14 - Defense inspired win
--------------------------------------------------------------
L CINCY 33-27 - Defense scored a TD, offense gave up a TD and through other turnovers short fields. They played a top 5 QB and basically gave up 23 points. Offense sucked
L CLE 23-19 - Offense couldn't put up 23 points? they sucked. Defense gave up shit TD but again, 23 points is average
L MIN 23-16 - Offense couldn't put up 23 points? Baker turnover set up a free 3 points and special teams gave up a TD. Offense sucked.
so there's been 1 constant in the last 9 gamesÂ
Offense sucked - 8 games
Offense mid - 1 game (Atlanta game)
Offense good- 0 games (any games with over 30 points?)
--------------------------------------------------
Defense sucked - 1 game (Atlanta game, 3rd and 28! gatzooks)
Defense mid - 4 games (NO, CAR, CIN, CLE) - defense played mid enough for the game to be won.Â
Defense good- 4 games (ARZ, Miami, Carolina, MIN)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
this is NOT an endorsement of Bowles but it appears the D can show up occasionally where the offense has been helpless
There's like 2 good offenses in that list. Bowles has had a cakewalk schedule overall and against offenses that are bad.
JC is the only poster that was still supporting Bowles after the collapse last year.
I don't think JC was supporting Bowles. I think JC is a hilarious anti-Licht troll who has one basic, boring troll and that is to claim greater insight. "you all think Coen was great but he was actually bad . . .and here's a tortured 'stat' to 'prove' it."Â
Some of JC's stuff is absurd, but the Red Board also makes it easy for him because the Red Board can be equally absurd, particularly about Bowles.
Bowles has failed on the merits, beginning in 2025, but many (not all) of loudest anti-Bowles voices today wrongly predicted his demise sicne 2022 when there was NO WAY that was going to happen lol. Proof of that was cemented when it did not happen after last season, but that matters not in a world where the Bucs collapse become "vindication."Â
The HC is always going to be the appropriate focus of fan discontent, so Bowles is a target as he should be and just like every HC in the NFL.Â
But, if we are being honest (difficult thing for people here even posting anonymously lol) some of the Bowles stuff posted here transcends the Buccaneers and his job as HC. Some of it is typical transference of other football related disappointment. For example, he took over the typical post-Super Bowl decline in 2022, but most didnt see that the decline was actually happening until 2023, 2024 or 2025. So, "Bowles killed Brady." Most of the Bowles voices denied the talent gap (Michael Jordan? 36 year old LVD) that relates more to the owners and Licht. The talent issue was denied because of the weirdly unreasonable stance many take. "Bowles=bad so cant concede this wasnt a SB team!"
anyway, the football stuff is all fine and understandable for pissed off fans, but the three year "fire Bowles" campaign was always COMPLETELY and undeniably out of touch with an ownership that is/was heavily influenced by Arians and influenced by the SUCCESS that Bowles had with a rebuilding team (i.e., the owner's likely view). On the Red Board, that success was met with the still hilarious "playoffs dont matter" argument.
Like I said, the Red Board can make it easy for the JCs of the message board world where JC is "supporting Bowles" (or not supporting Coen) because it riles people up.
Hard to take JC seriously on anything when he was so obviously wrong about Coen.
Coen immediately turned the Jags around. He did the same thing to Baker and Lawrence.
He's very clearly a top 5 coach in this league.
We have a bottom 5 coach.
Licht made that call so being pissed at Licht for all the wrong reasons and none of the obvious ones is a classic jc-ism.
Yeah he should just be a DC then. Not only does the offense suck, we are top 10 in most penalized teams in the NFL too.Bucs defense is now 6th in EPA
Offense is now 31st
Baker is 45th out of 47 QBs
Hand picked this shitty OC, this QB and we have zero discipline. Jets Bowles is so back
Nothing is Bowles fault.Â
Wait until we play a real offense at full strength.
Jfc it'll be a blood bathÂ
the defense is ass. I don't understand JC's point here. It seems like he's trying to suggest Bowles is doing a good job on that side of the ball while we have other posters on the opposite end which will find anyway possible to make the defense the main culprit because it's a direct extension of Bowles.Â
Listen the Bucs are in the midst of a 2-10 slide.Â
the first 3 games were against NE, BUF, and LAR. Let's just chalk that up to the Bucs being a mid team as they've done in the past under Bowles where they basically just beat up on shit teams with a few impressive wins (GB,Jax in 23, LAC in 24)
So at 6-5, the Bucs then went 2-4 to end the year against teams they should have beat.Â
W Arizona 20-17 - Defense inspired win
L New Orleans 24-20 -Â you had 17 points late in the 4th on this team? Really offense?Â
L Carolina 23-20 - Need to score 23 to meet league average. Offense sucked
L Atlanta 29-28 - 3rd and 28th! Defense sucked
L Miami 20-17 - fuckin 10 points late in the 4th with no timeouts only for a garbage time TD. Offense sucked.Â
W Carolina 16-14 - Defense inspired win
--------------------------------------------------------------
L CINCY 33-27 - Defense scored a TD, offense gave up a TD and through other turnovers short fields. They played a top 5 QB and basically gave up 23 points. Offense sucked
L CLE 23-19 - Offense couldn't put up 23 points? they sucked. Defense gave up shit TD but again, 23 points is average
L MIN 23-16 - Offense couldn't put up 23 points? Baker turnover set up a free 3 points and special teams gave up a TD. Offense sucked.
so there's been 1 constant in the last 9 gamesÂ
Offense sucked - 8 games
Offense mid - 1 game (Atlanta game)
Offense good- 0 games (any games with over 30 points?)
--------------------------------------------------
Defense sucked - 1 game (Atlanta game, 3rd and 28! gatzooks)
Defense mid - 4 games (NO, CAR, CIN, CLE) - defense played mid enough for the game to be won.Â
Defense good- 4 games (ARZ, Miami, Carolina, MIN)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
this is NOT an endorsement of Bowles but it appears the D can show up occasionally where the offense has been helpless
There's like 2 good offenses in that list. Bowles has had a cakewalk schedule overall and against offenses that are bad.
not endorsing Bowles defense by any means. Just suggesting by points allowed, they did enoughÂ
speaking of opponents, what do you make of the Bucs only putting up 10 points against the dolphins in the first 59 minutes when they allowed 40 points a game the games sandwiched in between the Bucs match upÂ
Vikings lose this game to any other team.
So you must mean because the other team's offenses play better? I get that that is a low bar, but the Bears put up 50 something on the Panthers. The Vikings beat the Bears the next week holding them to 3 points for most of the game with Ben Johnson and their top QB (Williams).
I am not suggesting the Bucs offense played well, but just that there is a contradiction to your point and I doubt anyone thinks Robinson is Ben Johnson etc.Â
It's not that the defense didn't play well it's that it looked better than it was because Vikings lost Jefferson, had the game script, and Murray whiffed on multiple throws.
I am okay with "looked better than it was" but the defense only plays the game as it comes. The Vikings offense is trying lol. Why else did they adjust and go deep? And if Parrish's defense of that play was "bad" then certainly the D-line sacks were "good." The interception was good. The run defense was good. The defense of the TE (a logical target especially after Jefferson goes down) was good. Even Anzalone's play was good.
Would they perform as well against the Rams? Probably not. So that part is fair, but a much maligned Bucs defense did actually play well and certainly well enough relative to the offense to not even merit much discussion after this game . . and yet. . . which brings us back to JC!
And that game day thread . . . whoa. how about all those Viking PUNTS? lol
See, its posts like this that just get under my skin and I don't really know why (maybe its a character flaw) or maybe I misread your intention. Or maybe I am just a dumb inbred hillbilly that goes brain dead 6 paragraphs into a post.ÂJC is the only poster that was still supporting Bowles after the collapse last year.
I don't think JC was supporting Bowles. I think JC is a hilarious anti-Licht troll who has one basic, boring troll and that is to claim greater insight. "you all think Coen was great but he was actually bad . . .and here's a tortured 'stat' to 'prove' it."Â
Some of JC's stuff is absurd, but the Red Board also makes it easy for him because the Red Board can be equally absurd, particularly about Bowles.
Bowles has failed on the merits, beginning in 2025, but many (not all) of loudest anti-Bowles voices today wrongly predicted his demise sicne 2022 when there was NO WAY that was going to happen lol. Proof of that was cemented when it did not happen after last season, but that matters not in a world where the Bucs collapse become "vindication."Â
The HC is always going to be the appropriate focus of fan discontent, so Bowles is a target as he should be and just like every HC in the NFL.Â
But, if we are being honest (difficult thing for people here even posting anonymously lol) some of the Bowles stuff posted here transcends the Buccaneers and his job as HC. Some of it is typical transference of other football related disappointment. For example, he took over the typical post-Super Bowl decline in 2022, but most didnt see that the decline was actually happening until 2023, 2024 or 2025. So, "Bowles killed Brady." Most of the Bowles voices denied the talent gap (Michael Jordan? 36 year old LVD) that relates more to the owners and Licht. The talent issue was denied because of the weirdly unreasonable stance many take. "Bowles=bad so cant concede this wasnt a SB team!"
anyway, the football stuff is all fine and understandable for pissed off fans, but the three year "fire Bowles" campaign was always COMPLETELY and undeniably out of touch with an ownership that is/was heavily influenced by Arians and influenced by the SUCCESS that Bowles had with a rebuilding team (i.e., the owner's likely view). On the Red Board, that success was met with the still hilarious "playoffs dont matter" argument.
Like I said, the Red Board can make it easy for the JCs of the message board world where JC is "supporting Bowles" (or not supporting Coen) because it riles people up.
Perhaps the only reason some of us are whining so loudly (myself included) about firing Bowles is none of the scenarios you present here. Maybe its because some of us raised on football, played football, and give a hot damn about what the Bucs look like knew that at best, Bowles was a .500 head coach and at worst - well, we are seeing that now. Bowles was an underqualified candidate. NOTHING in his entire existence should have instilled confidence that he would do anything other than shit the bed. It's the same scenario as it was with Raheehaw, Greg Schiano, and Dirk Koetter. The lone guy that was a bigger disappointment than most anyone would admit is Lovie Smith. Many of us thought we were getting something like the old Bears head coach Lovie Smith. What we got was a guy sleeping on the sidelines. Bowles is closer to all of those guys than not. I am convinced it was a DEI/croniism hire based on input from Bruce Arians because Bowles was his buddy. Plain and simple. It has nothing to do with Red Board this or that or typical transference of other football related disappointment. He got a job he should have never been given and has been permitted to stick around while younger, better, and more skilled guys jetted off to find success elsewhere. That last part is on the ownership and Licht. They botched this not once, but twice. And I don't even really like Canales, but this team would be better with him than with the idiot.
That is why I whine like a 2 year old about Bowles and it isn't anything more complicated than that.
oh it's not hard to be disappointed with ownership handling of Bowles. Many of us wanted him fired after 2022 and 2025 seasons. Alot of those not living in real world, wanted him gone after 2024 season.
Shit, the only season i was ok with him was after 2023 where we won a playoff game and we were 4-7 at one point that year.
