@alldaway I think if we drop one the Phinz game and beat the Panthers to slide ass first into the playoffs, coupled with a first round exit then he'll be fired( obviously same if we miss the playoffs alltogether) Where it gets interesting is if we take the next two games, maybe get a first round win but then get blown out in the divisional round then Bowles may be back with the caveat that he re-tools his coaching staff,if he refuses he's gone. That's the only real scenario where I think he stays, especially after dropping 3 very winable matchups against some poor compeition and losing 7 of the last 9 overall.
@alldaway I think if we drop one the Phinz game and beat the Panthers to slide ass first into the playoffs, coupled with a first round exit then he'll be fired( obviously same if we miss the playoffs alltogether) Where it gets interesting is if we take the next two games, maybe get a first round win but then get blown out in the divisional round then Bowles may be back with the caveat that he re-tools his coaching staff,if he refuses he's gone. That's the only real scenario where I think he stays, especially after dropping 3 very winable matchups against some poor compeition and losing 7 of the last 9 overall.
yeah that kind of hypothetical turnaround would make things interesting
back to back wins to end season and then somehow beat a superior team in prime time during the playoffs.
to your point, that may be a situation where Bucs maintain Bowles but change the coordinators as one last ditch effort. Would be the 2nd team there was a clean house coordinator situation so not sure how likely.
i think the odds are there that the Bucs lose out to be honest. I know based off how talented the roster is, still many non buc fan pundits believing in the team and even Vegas, but i dont think we are beating Miami or Carolina. This team forgot how to win.
i think the odds are there that the Bucs lose out to be honest. I know based off how talented the roster is, still many non buc fan pundits believing in the team and even Vegas, but i dont think we are beating Miami or Carolina. This team forgot how to win.
I agree with you but you can at least imagine the scenario where they beat the Fins and with some improved confidence beat the Panthers etc.
I am not sure the remaining season means much to Bowles future absent something like buckshot describes. Even then there have to clean out some players and spends some $ and that seems a strange process to entrust to a last ditch effort HC
i think the odds are there that the Bucs lose out to be honest. I know based off how talented the roster is, still many non buc fan pundits believing in the team and even Vegas, but i dont think we are beating Miami or Carolina. This team forgot how to win.
I agree with you but you can at least imagine the scenario where they beat the Fins and with some improved confidence beat the Panthers etc.
I am not sure the remaining season means much to Bowles future absent something like buckshot describes. Even then there have to clean out some players and spends some $ and that seems a strange process to entrust to a last ditch effort HC
i mean there is no reason we shouldn't beat the Dolphins and Panthers. We are the superior teams, will be favored, and more talented squads. Heck, the Dolphins are starting a quarterback who was posting on these message boards 3 weeks ago. So yeah, what should happen and whats likely to happen are two different things.
i feel the locker room has been lost and this team will continue to underperform and lose out.
If they beat the Dolphins now, then let's see, should make an interesting week 18; but ill believe it when i see it
. I know based off how talented the roster is
Not that PFF is 100% accurate, but they have the Bucs in the same tier as Vikings, Saints, Panthers, Cardinals, Giants, Dolphins, Steelers, Falcons.
why are Bucs 5.5 point favorites on the road against the Dolphins? Why were they favored on the road against the Panthers? Also heavily favored against Saints and Falcons.
. I know based off how talented the roster is
Not that PFF is 100% accurate, but they have the Bucs in the same tier as Vikings, Saints, Panthers, Cardinals, Giants, Dolphins, Steelers, Falcons.
why are Bucs 5.5 point favorites on the road against the Dolphins? Why were they favored on the road against the Panthers? Also heavily favored against Saints and Falcons.
Betting lines are designed to get an equal amount of action on both sides so the house collects the vig. That's why it moves.
. I know based off how talented the roster is
Not that PFF is 100% accurate, but they have the Bucs in the same tier as Vikings, Saints, Panthers, Cardinals, Giants, Dolphins, Steelers, Falcons.
why are Bucs 5.5 point favorites on the road against the Dolphins? Why were they favored on the road against the Panthers? Also heavily favored against Saints and Falcons.
Betting lines are designed to get an equal amount of action on both sides so the house collects the vig. That's why it moves.
didnt answer my question, the betting lines are suggesting the Bucs should win these games and in many cases, rather easily (8.5 points to Saints, 5.5 versus Dolphins on road, 3 on road to Panthers, etc.)
why?
i think the odds are there that the Bucs lose out to be honest. I know based off how talented the roster is, still many non buc fan pundits believing in the team and even Vegas, but i dont think we are beating Miami or Carolina. This team forgot how to win.
I agree with you but you can at least imagine the scenario where they beat the Fins and with some improved confidence beat the Panthers etc.
I am not sure the remaining season means much to Bowles future absent something like buckshot describes. Even then there have to clean out some players and spends some $ and that seems a strange process to entrust to a last ditch effort HC
i mean there is no reason we shouldn't beat the Dolphins and Panthers. We are the superior teams
Hmm, not in the real world because teams don't play on paper, roster against roster. Teams play on the field and on the field the Bucs are in the midst of an epic collapse so their confidence is low and the pressure at it highest levels.
Dolphins are playing for film and spoiler, so playing lose, free and fast. Compare that to Bucs playing tight and unsure and waiting for the inevitable F-up.
That is the REAL WORLD of all sports, from kids to pros. Bowles deserves credit for navigating his teams through that stuff slumps previously, but he hasn't done so this season AND is arguably part of the problem (ie players maybe unsure about game plan)
So, in the real world there are MANY reasons for us to lose both games. And its not just the Bucs. Every week of the NFL season, supposedly "superior" teams get their asses kicked by supposedly "inferior" teams. The Bucs beat the Seahawks in Seattle who, in tun, beat the Rams (when it really mattered). The Bucs are better than the Rams? NO. Seahawks better than the Rams? maybe?
Teams often split with division opponents, even with a talent gap, because its tough to have two different winning game plans. Easier to commit to stop a team's singular strength or exploit its weakness.
To each their own, but dont miss the actual Bucs because the focus is the head coach or the OC or even your own expectations. Leave that to the sad, lifeless trolls!
If the Bucs beat the Dolphins (as one example), you cant just say "hey they should've won anyway" because that is undercutting everything it took to get the win UNDER THE CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES, those circumstances being an epic collapse that has players and coaches reeling. If its "they should have won" based on paper or whatever, then you're missing the boxer getting up off the mat and . . .either winning or getting knocked out. It doesn't matter who the favorite was before the bell, the boxer either gets up or is knocked out. ("that's why they play the game")
The season might not be matching expectations about a Super Bowl and the slump is, of course, very disappointing, but IF the Bucs are able to right the ship and make the playoffs (I do not think they will be able to) that is SUCCESS. It may not be the success that was pre-programmed in your mind, but it is very much success . . and that includes for the coaching staff.
if they dont then its FAILURE . . but every single Bucs team and coaching staff has failed. Every One.
The Arians team won it all, but also collapsed (and not because of a zero blitz lmao because of the power shift in the team, and human failings that make it tough to repeat etc). Dungy turned around a terrible franchise and made it great, but then the same belief system that brought that success unraveled the team (fired les Steckel -- watch Raise the Flags lol). Gruden's LEADERSHIP got the Bucs a SB, but also later unravelled the team when their was no check on his power. Hell, the forward thinking FO and HC turned the orginal winless Bucs into something only to arguably have the owners RACISM keep the team from winning a SB earlier. To some that set off decades of YUCK . . .
There's a hell of a lot more to the Bucs than any one coach or season.
. I know based off how talented the roster is
Not that PFF is 100% accurate, but they have the Bucs in the same tier as Vikings, Saints, Panthers, Cardinals, Giants, Dolphins, Steelers, Falcons.
why are Bucs 5.5 point favorites on the road against the Dolphins? Why were they favored on the road against the Panthers? Also heavily favored against Saints and Falcons.
Betting lines are designed to get an equal amount of action on both sides so the house collects the vig. That's why it moves.
didnt answer my question, the betting lines are suggesting the Bucs should win these games and in many cases, rather easily (8.5 points to Saints, 5.5 versus Dolphins on road, 3 on road to Panthers, etc.)
why?
You still aren't understanding how lines are determined. It's about public perception, not actual football. Bucs are among the worst teams vs the spread because the public perception does not match reality. The other bad teams vs the spread are the Ravens, Chiefs and Commanders. Public thinks they're better than they are.
This is how PFF views the league's rosters
Tier 1- Rams
Tier 2- Seahawks, Packers, Patriots, Bills
Tier 3- Texans, Eagles, Broncos, Jaguars, Chargers, Chiefs, Ravens, Bears, 49ers, Lions, Colts, Cowboys
Tier 4- Vikings, Saints, Bucs, Steelers, Panthers, Dolphins, Cardinals, Giants
Tier 5- Browns, Commanders, Bengals
Tier 6- Titans, Raiders, Jets
Rams are the best team in the league vs the spead and the best team on here. The public underestimates how good they are. Seahawks and Patriots are 20-10 vs the spread because they weren't good last year and the public is slow to react.
Now for the good part. Here's how PFF views the Bucs roster. I don't agree with everything but it's fairly accurate from what I see.
Elite- Wirfs
Very good- Dean, White
Above Average- Mayfield, Bucky, Evans, Goedeke, Vea, Winfield, Smith
Average- Tucker, Egbuka, Shepherd, Diaby, Nelson, Hall, McCollum, Parrish.
Bad- Otton, Bredeson, Jordan, Barton, Feeney, Reddick, Braswell, Roberts, David, Dennis, Morrison
We have a GM issue, not a HC issue.
. I know based off how talented the roster is
Not that PFF is 100% accurate, but they have the Bucs in the same tier as Vikings, Saints, Panthers, Cardinals, Giants, Dolphins, Steelers, Falcons.
why are Bucs 5.5 point favorites on the road against the Dolphins? Why were they favored on the road against the Panthers? Also heavily favored against Saints and Falcons.
Betting lines are designed to get an equal amount of action on both sides so the house collects the vig. That's why it moves.
didnt answer my question, the betting lines are suggesting the Bucs should win these games and in many cases, rather easily (8.5 points to Saints, 5.5 versus Dolphins on road, 3 on road to Panthers, etc.)
why?
You still aren't understanding how lines are determined. It's about public perception, not actual football. Bucs are among the worst teams vs the spread because the public perception does not match reality. The other bad teams vs the spread are the Ravens, Chiefs and Commanders. Public thinks they're better than they are.
This is how PFF views the league's rosters
Tier 1- Rams
Tier 2- Seahawks, Packers, Patriots, Bills
Tier 3- Texans, Eagles, Broncos, Jaguars, Chargers, Chiefs, Ravens, Bears, 49ers, Lions, Colts, Cowboys
Tier 4- Vikings, Saints, Bucs, Steelers, Panthers, Dolphins, Cardinals, Giants
Tier 5- Browns, Commanders, Bengals
Tier 6- Titans, Raiders, Jets
Rams are the best team in the league vs the spead and the best team on here. The public underestimates how good they are. Seahawks and Patriots are 20-10 vs the spread because they weren't good last year and the public is slow to react.
Now for the good part. Here's how PFF views the Bucs roster. I don't agree with everything but it's fairly accurate from what I see.
Elite- Wirfs
Very good- Dean, White
Above Average- Mayfield, Bucky, Evans, Goedeke, Vea, Winfield, Smith
Average- Tucker, Egbuka, Shepherd, Diaby, Nelson, Hall, McCollum, Parrish.
Bad- Otton, Bredeson, Jordan, Barton, Feeney, Reddick, Braswell, Roberts, David, Dennis, Morrison
We have a GM issue, not a HC issue.
We def have a head coach issue lol....he's not making anyone better via scheme and play calling
Sorry I call bullshit. Being the least bad team in the sorriest division is not success. Losing three straight critical to inferior division foes is not success. Going 9-8 when you start the season at 6-1 is not success.The season might not be matching expectations about a Super Bowl and the slump is, of course, very disappointing, but IF the Bucs are able to right the ship and make the playoffs (I do not think they will be able to) that is SUCCESS. It may not be the success that was pre-programmed in your mind, but it is very much success . . and that includes for the coaching staff.
if they dont then its FAILURE . . but every single Bucs team and coaching staff has failed. Every One.
Having a home playoff game where you get steamrolled on national television in front of a raucous crowd of visiting fans is not "success".
Success is very much tied to expectations, and expectations for this team were high at the beginning of the year.
Success is very much tied to expectations, and expectations for this team were high at the beginning of the year.The season might not be matching expectations about a Super Bowl and the slump is, of course, very disappointing, but IF the Bucs are able to right the ship and make the playoffs (I do not think they will be able to) that is SUCCESS. It may not be the success that was pre-programmed in your mind, but it is very much success . . and that includes for the coaching staff.
if they dont then its FAILURE . . but every single Bucs team and coaching staff has failed. Every One.
Well, keep in mind my post began with . . TO EACH, THEIR OWN. . . but let's start with common ground: I get YOUR point.
Its a different point then the one I was making, but let's start with your comment to get there:
"expectations for this team were high at the beginning of the year."
We are no longer at the beginning of the year. We are deep into a season that has been MARRED by injuries and losses. The team is in the midst of a 1-6 slide. That is where we are TODAY. (By your standard the team was a failure somewhere after the bye, I guess? Even though the season was not over?)
Anyway, if a team is able to turn around a slide like that and win out, then that -- THE TURN AROUND ITSELF - is a success. The season may not be a successful by virtue of your "high expectations . . .at the beginning of the year," but I guarantee you most of the Bucs players who continue on will hang their hat on that end of season "success," just like they will attribute a lot of the earlier losses to INJURY, even while fans say injuries are meaningless. Btw, those same players didn't EXPECT that their 5-1 start meant they were Super Bowl bound, especially the ones who have been to a Super Bowl.
Anyway, if we beat the Dolphins many fans will say "THEY were supposed to win." Many say that ALREADY. Before the game. About a team on a 1-6 slide. Because, again, the measuring stick is the (dated0 expectation of a team that is not the same TODAY. This same mindset is why many fans would seemingly support tanking after a 1-5 start to a season, fire the coach right there, cut half the team etc. Because the ONLY OUTCOME is already determined in their minds. You see that posted here all the time. This season is already over because the expectation was Super Bowl and "the best they will do is some first round playoff trouncing."
TO ME . . thats is a terrible way to enjoy/support a team . . BUT TO EACH THEIR OWN
Having a home playoff game where you get steamrolled on national television in front of a raucous crowd of visiting fans is not "success".
I mean, you illustrated my point. right? Not saying you're wrong, just saying there are different ways to support a team.
I was at the Commanders playoff game, surrounded by Commanders fans. I'd go again. Hope that our C snaps the ball, we get a better hand off etc.
