major boneheaded mistakes since their start in 1976
For sure lots of big mistakes over many years, like all teams, but man since the Glazer era and, in particular, the Licht era the team has made a bunch of very smart moves.
Smart moves in the draft, often times MOVING UP to get key players.
Smart moves in free agency like Barrett and JPP. And Mayfield, obviously.
Even smart moves with coaches. There was a lot of talk around here that the Bucs would suffer with the loss of Canales
Even smart moves with the cap and keeping the Bucs competitive while they payoff the Brady debt
all teams make mistakes but if you step back and look at the Licht era its been pretty damn good
well yeah, no doubt, Licht legacy has sky rocketed since Brady came to town.
@biggs3535 - exactly. Coaching makes all the difference. If you’ve ever sat down and schemed up an offense, more importantly, a running game, you’d understand. Trust me, the offense, including the offensive line, will take a huge step backwards next year if we lose Coen.
@bucsbits - this could have been about any team’s futility through the years. However good or bad it’s been. My question is where would this mistake go down in our top 10 boneheaded moves to you?
well it's difficult to rank as there are several types of bone head moves
1. Poor draft selections
- Trading up to select a kicker in the second round such as Roberto Aguayo
- In your Superbowl repeat attempt, drafting a guy in the 2nd round that grades out as a back-up QB in the NFL in Kyle Trask
- Passing on a franchise QB like Aaron Rodgers and instead going with a running back
2. Poor selection in Coaching Hires
- Replacing Jon Gruden with Raheem Morris. It was time to move on from Gruden but with a valid replacement. The Bucs were mediocre under Gruden but in the 10 years that succeeded him, the Bucs went to worst team in the league. It all started with Morris and then a couple of poor coaching hires after that
- Arians Stepping down and replacing with Bowles. While Bowles is likely to be 3 for 3 in playoff seasons, that has more to do with Jason Licht than anyone. Some fans clam they know, but we will never know the truth as to Arians demise - whether forced out or on his own, so late in the offseason. Sure, if Arians suddenly decided to retire, the Bucs had little choice but to replace with Bowles as opposed to Lefty. However, if it was a more cynical push aside, boy did we see the downgrade in 2022 versus the prior 2 Brady years!
- Losing Coen when the offense is ranking top 5 in both yards and points per game would be up there
3. Free Agency/Trades
- Letting Warren Sapp walk for the likes of Charlie Garner
- Trading for Revis and he's gone 1 year later
-Signing Tom Brady. Dude made us spoiled (totally kidding)
@bucsbits - this could have been about any team’s futility through the years. However good or bad it’s been. My question is where would this mistake go down in our top 10 boneheaded moves to you?
Well, I am a HUGE fan of Coen and he is definitely a talented offensive coach we do not want to lose.
I probably have an unpopular view on it though, but that has more to do with the way I view the team. Anyway, I don't think that any one coach is that significant, at least in the long run. As an example, the Bucs could lose Coen and fire Bowles at the end of this season and hire Monken as the new HC and I think most would be looking forward to 2025 and feel good about the Bucs chances going forward.
I am hopeful we keep Coen, just to make that clear but the premise of your question -- "bonehead moves" - implies that decision is totally within the Bucs control when it is not. As SR pointed out, the Patriots job might be too much for Coen to pass on given his background. I think Coen stays, as I have posted before, but he may have other things in mind completely external to football.
Either way, the team will go on and so would Coen, neither ones success or failure fully tied to the other
one has to be blind not to realize what coen means for this team now
IMO, the few on here (and the handful on social media) who favor keeping Bowles simply confuse mediocrity for stability.
few on here (and the handful on social media) who favor keeping Bowles simply confuse mediocrity for stability.
Lmao, you cant help but post about other people being inferior, but just putting that aside and trying to stick to just football . .
there is an OBVIOUS alternative to "mediocrity for stability" and IT COMES FROM YOUR OWN POSTS
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YOU said on this board repeatedly (when it served your trolling) that last year's defense was "7th in scoring" and that that was "the ONLY stat that mattered."
That was TRUE, RIGHT? STICK WITH YOUR OWN WORDS THEN.
This 2024 defense is currently 17th in scoring? Something like that.
If the 2025 Bucs matched the offensive output of 2024 with the the defensive output of 2023 (7th in scoring) they would very Likely finish with 13 wins and be a top seed, especially in a weak division, right?
If they matched both outputs with less injury its a top 5 offense matched with a defense that is between 7th and 17th in the ONLY STAT THAT MATTERS, right?
The PERSONNEL difference between the 2023 defensive result (7th in scoring ) and the 2024 results (currently 17th) -- a difference of a couple points per game -- is not that large and primarily impacted by INJURIES.
But, even if one does not accept that WHAT IF COEN . . (like Ben Johnson) is trying to find the BEST HEAD COACH opportunity and he looked at the opportunities this year and did not see a perfect fit (like Ben Johnson).
Looking at the Bucs though, what if the plan IN THE FRONT OFFUCE has ALL ALONG been to turn to the defensive talent now that the Brady debt is diminished and the offense is loaded? That would mean IN TAMPA in 2025 he would have
1. Godwin and Otton back AND
2. A defense that BY YOUR OWN WORDS AND REALITY - is somewhere between 7th and 17th BEFORE any additions in talent (like a DE or CB)
3. all in a fairly week division
And #4 for Coen would be a HC job in waiting . . with his QB and his coaches and the offense he's built
so now add in a 5 . . . the Bucs are going to go get Crosby or some big defensive FA. If they are healthy the defense is 17th in Scoring ("average") to exceptional in scoring (7th) before the new talent.
That all adds up to a GREAT SCENARIO FOR COEN -- a Ben Johnson worthy scenario, potentially
YOU MIGHT DISAGREE with some of that (even though its based on your own prior comments lol), but even you should be able to admit that there is a reasonable alternative to the "bad people" on here and social media who MUST be confusing "mediocrity for stability?"
Coen might see that alternative . . . in fact SR has spoken about it as recently as . . well . . TODAY
DH, let's see you address that alternative KEEPING IT JUST TO FOOTBALL?
Do you agree that reasonable minds could see it as something other than "mediocrity for stability?"
Or they understand the history of this team entrusting unproven/first time head coaches.one has to be blind not to realize what coen means for this team now
IMO, the few on here (and the handful on social media) who favor keeping Bowles simply confuse mediocrity for stability.
Some are concerned about that aspect because we remember the chance-taking on similar bets. While Liam has shown an ability to put a fantastic offensive game-plan together, he is still a one season OC with no head coaching experience. It’s like handing the keys of the Corvette (I did not say Ferrari, because a lot of resources will have to be dedicated to bring the defense up to that level - and we have no idea the candidates for DC, or the scheme), to a college grad who just finishing up his internship…
Some have become convinced that Todd Bowles has become a limiting factor - doesn’t give us a warm fuzzy that everything will necessarily fall into place unless we have some experience at the DC position.
I’d bet a lot of experienced fans have slowly come around to the idea that this league is about results, and the current defensive-minded head coach didn’t achieve expectations. While some of that is due to a lack of defensive talent at key positions, and therefore he’s not playing with a full deck - it may be time for a change.
A mailbag writer suggested exactly the same thing I suggested on a thread weeks ago. It wasn't me, but they probably read my post. That is to convince Bowles to make 2025 his last as Bucs HC, make Coen the highest paid OC in the league and promise Coen the HC job in 2026.
Why Bowles would do it: His choice would be to A) be fired, B) Continue forward and find another OC which likely means another year like the last two - ups and down and hoping to get a winning record and squeak into the playoffs, or C) Promise to retire, keep Coen, bring in a couple new defensive coaches, and have Licht load up with a couple big free agents and take one good shot at a Superbowl. If Bowles is looking to retire at some point, it might be better to have one good shot at a Superbowl instead of dragging along for a couple more years. He could be fired next year anyway if he doesn't meet expectations. He hasn't bought himself any extra years just because he's likely to go 10-7.
Why Coen would do it: If he takes a HC job somewhere else, he'd have to spend at least a year or probably more installing the offense, building an O-line and getting in sync with the QB not to mention the GM. Getting a good QB and building a good O-line can take years if you can do it at all. He wouldn't have to do any of that if he waits a year for the Bucs job. It has to be a set in stone deal, whether it's in writing or a stone cold lock guarantee.
Why good defensive coaches would come: In this scenario the good defensive coaches out there could be recruited because they would would see an opportunity to move to DC in a year.
Why Licht would want this: He has been building toward 2025 anyway by not spreading out the dead cap money, eschewing veteran free agents, and building through the draft. Now his high priced players are in their prime and the fantastic rookie class has experience. He has cap room to bring in some higher priced free agents. He can't afford to once again have to break in a new coaching staff on either side of the ball. He's going to have to find a way to keep Coen around. This is probably the only way.
It’s interesting, the offense has had answers in all but a few contests the season - but Denver and Dallas spring to mind - when the offense couldn’t bail the defense out.
It’s a concern.
I do think Tampa Bay is an attractive opportunity - but a lot would depend on the cap aspect and how much resources will be made available to reload the defense with enough talent to legitimately compete for a Super Bowl.
It’s entirely possible that Coen might stay on for another year under Bowles, but the fact that he’d need a new contract makes it a bit tougher to think through that scenario.
Winning out gives Bowles a stronger hand - if that’s what he wants - but the proverbial carrot to become a HC is dangling - albeit with some bad teams.
A lot riding on what Coen wants.
how much resources will be made available to reload the defense with enough talent to legitimately compete for a Super Bowl.
agreed
Licht and the Glazers are not locked into anything. I said that it would be hard to fire a double digit win coach, but there's really nothing preventing them from doing whatever they think is going to take the Bucs to the next level. The Glazers fired Dungy after three straight playoff teams, so they are not afraid to do whatever they think is best for the team regardless of won-loss records. On top of that, I haven't heard a lot of public statements from management about the future of Bowles either positive or negative.one has to be blind not to realize what coen means for this team now
IMO, the few on here (and the handful on social media) who favor keeping Bowles simply confuse mediocrity for stability.
So my point is if the Bucs do choose to retain Bowles, it's because they want to. Not because of any sense of loyalty or public perception or wanting to maintain stability/mediocrity. It will be because they think it gives the Bucs the best chance to win next year.
Drafting Roberto aguyao
Drafting Kyle trask(or any qb round 2 that year)
switching to those ugly jerseys the alarm clock ones
I'll give you Aguyao, and the uniforms....Trask makes sense in that Brady retirement talk was a yearly thing, and who doesn't want a potential QB for the foreseeable future that can learn from the best to ever do it behind the scenes ? Hindsight is 20/20 but I understand the logic at the time.
That being said those mis-steps don't even rank in the top 5 I don't think..
Bo Jackson situation
Toes on the Line/MRSA/Freeman debacle
Ray Perkins getting into a fight where punches were thrown during halftime with a player on the team and not be fired (Ron Heller)
Writing down the wrong name on a draft card, then trading away next years #1 to move up and select the player you intended on drafting(one was a bust and the other average at best)
Trading away a first and a fourth rd pick for a one year rental of Revis and then cutting him outright rather than trade him again
Trading a #1 pick for The Underthrowin' Samoan has to be in there, too.
