in your opinion of course…
…but let's see what you got to say Debatable Dan
Well, considering you were so openly opinionated about a poster’s list; that must make you Debatable Debbie (or Darlene, Diana, Darcy, Dawn…though Daisy would suit you best).
All that being said, yes, it’s my “opinion” that Joe’s catch was more important regarding a SB run than Miller’s.
At the Vet.
Against someone who owned us, bullied us, were more physical, etc.
Our record in cold weather.
Not to mention what was happening off the field for Joe
So on and so forth.
Game couldn’t have started worse.
Joe’s catch literally TRANSFORMED the game.
Like when Rocky cut Drago for the first time.
The team followed.
His TD before Packers half time was just as important in the Bucs Superbowl run.
No, it wasn't.
in your opinion of course
Given how that second half played out, without that TD, we potentially lose that 31-26 game
Not saying that JJ catch and run wasn't a game changer either; just suggesting we appear to be overrating the player listing him a top 10 buccaneer all time; but let's see what you got to say Debatable Dan
I would agree. I'm not sure they win that Packer game without that TD before the half. That was huge.
While Miller has more total yards, Jurevicious has more YPG as a Buccaneer. With more TD's & Receptions in less years/games as a Buc, Jurevicious (30 games) was a better Buc than Speedy Scotty Miller (50 games) - even if he wasn't anointed as a JC All Star. But it's fairly surprising either is on anybody's Top10 list.
as a fan, i also liked Joe Jurevicius more; my point about mediocre and easily replaceable Scotty Miller was just that....that he was a nobody and....color me pink...so was Joe Jurevicius in the grand scheme of things.
My point was more that JJ was not a top 10 buccaneer WR all time, let alone player. And not to go at the original poster, but it was more his preference as a fan. For example, i liked Leonard Fournette....but i wouldn't put him in the top 10; but would def rank him ahead of JJ in terms of all time Bucs.
Baker Mayfield in the top 20 buccaneers lol. I'm a baker Bro but let's see how the contract plays out...it's been 2 great years for sure
Kyle trask has got to be in the top 15!!!
Yep.For those who never watched Doug Williams play, or what he meant to the Bucs/his team, maybe you would question him being in this list.
If you know, you know.
yes, to be fair, i was not born when Doug was on the team
numbers are tough though
1978 - 4 wins, 6 losses; 7 TDs, 8 INTs
1979 - 10 wins, 6 losses; 18 TDs, 24 INTs (2 playoff games; 1 TD, 2 INT)
1980 - 5 wins, 10 losses, 1 tie - 20 TDs, 16 INTs
1981 - 9 wins, 7 losses; 19 TDs 14 INTs (1 playoff game, 0 TDs, 4 INTs)
1982 - 5 Wins, 4 losses; 9 TDs, 11 INTs (1 playoff game, 1 TD, 3 INTs)
i guess, it was an exciting time to watch given 1976 inception; but doesn't look like he changed the culture a
Top "x" lists are tough because people apply different metrics.
You appear to be focusing on Williams stats, which is certainly fair. Williams place in Bucs history transcends his stats though. In fact, William's most meaningful stats come AFTER the Bucs, but are still relevant to the Bucs because of the circumstances. Williams may not have changed the culture of the Bucs (he led them to the playoffs 3 or 4 times, so I would differ with you there) . . but the circumstances of his departure from the Bucs arguably advanced a change to the culture of the ENTIRE LEAGUE.
So, he's definitely one of the most consequential Bucs of all time. He is in the RING OF HONOR for a reason and those are his accomplishments on the field as the Bucs QB but because the current Bucs ownership tacitly acknowledges he was treated unfairly by the prior Bucs owner.
Williams was a "black quarterback" from an HCBU . . . paid very little in 1982, relative to other QBs. He asked to be paid for his performance in 1982/1983. The Bucs OWNER did not want to pay, but most would say it was about more than the amount as they were reportedly in easy compromise territory, but didn't get it done.
Williams goes to the Redskins where he eventually becomes the first African American QB to start a Super Bowl game and the Redskins won the Super Bowl and he was the MVP. He was the MVP because after injuring his knee in the game, he gets up and throws 4 TDS and 300 plus yards against the favored ELWAY-led Broncos. So, it was a Willis Reed-type moment (given your age you probably need to Google that lol) on the biggest stage. Those circumstances arguably play a part in changing the way some people viewed black QBs at the time.
In my view, the entire Redskins team plays well, but he has great throws on his TDs, most (all?) in the 2nd quarter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHBGZmYGCwk
Doug Williams did things that left you scratching your head for 3 quarters, then he’d find lightning and dominate the rest of the game - the time he put together 3 or 4 last minute comeback wins to get us into the playoffs were absolute roller-coaster, shred the wallpaper from the wall, chew your fingernails past the quick, shockers!
They never did anything to support Doug, we had a cheap owner who tried leveraging everyone for peanuts - including the fans. Sadly, much of his flawed judgement was based on skin color.
Hugh Culverhouse united the fanbase in calls for him to sell it. He was a stain on the organization in more ways than one.
Loved that this was the same period that the USFL briefly gave the Tampa Bat area something cheer about - The Bandits pulled more crowds than the Bucs and showed the fanbase - and possibly the league - what Tampa could be with an owner that was engaged and properly motivated.
You’re right, Doug Williams leaving the way he did, had an indirect hand in changing this franchise…in the way that change mostly happens in life, incrementally, at first.
This fanbase has a history of knowing what bad owners look like, and the cost to our team. Culverhouse became a cautionary tale of how NOT to develop a winner.
Like I said before, it’s a story for another thread.
But Doug Williams belongs in ANY Buccaneer top 10 ranking.
I like the Willis Reed reference/analogy, nice touch.
Baker has shown he’s matured, and he has definitely improved the team. He’s a good QB, hope he can be a great one… but he’s already won more playoff games than the majority of Buccaneers QB’s - so he’s at least due consideration for a made up list that until recently has had a really low bar.Baker Mayfield in the top 20 buccaneers lol. I'm a baker Bro but let's see how the contract plays out...it's been 2 great years for sure
Kyle trask has got to be in the top 15!!!
