Logan Hall is a liability out there. We have to replace him next year
He's being outplayed by a 5th round rookie.
The run of first-pick defensive players in Devin White, JTS, Logan Hall, & Calijah Kancey has been pretty horrendous. Just imagine if two of those hit.
Comically bad and ignored some easier LB picks right around there
if you look at in context of the Super Bowl though it's not comically bad. It's actually average to good.
I know it doesn't seem that way but that's because you're looking at in a vacuum, like they are always looking for BPA.
Devin White had a random good playoff run but I think that was a product of having elite talent around him that forced a ton of pressure which allowed him to free style... He's a hilariously unsounded player with zero fundamentals.
He wasn't good during the regular season... Like Fournette (who was a healthy scratch but turned it on in the playoffs) I'm thankful for that stretch but I don't think either were the actual reason we won.
Logan Hall is a liability out there. We have to replace him next year
He's being outplayed by a 5th round rookie.
The run of first-pick defensive players in Devin White, JTS, Logan Hall, & Calijah Kancey has been pretty horrendous. Just imagine if two of those hit.
Comically bad and ignored some easier LB picks right around there
Thinking about it, did LVD ever get paired up with a decent LB throughout his tenure here?
One where he wasn't covering for their numerous deficiencies and mistakes?
Not that I can think of... Another reason why he should be headed to the Hof
Logan Hall is a liability out there. We have to replace him next year
He's being outplayed by a 5th round rookie.
The run of first-pick defensive players in Devin White, JTS, Logan Hall, & Calijah Kancey has been pretty horrendous. Just imagine if two of those hit.
Comically bad and ignored some easier LB picks right around there
if you look at in context of the Super Bowl though it's not comically bad. It's actually average to good.
I know it doesn't seem that way but that's because you're looking at in a vacuum, like they are always looking for BPA.
Devin White had a random good playoff run but I think that was a product of having elite talent around him that forced a ton of pressure which allowed him to free style... He's a hilariously unsounded player with zero fundamentals.
He wasn't good during the regular season... Like Fournette (who was a healthy scratch but turned it on in the playoffs) I'm thankful for that stretch but I don't think either were the actual reason we won.
Like it or not White was a defensive centerpiece of the Super Bowl playoffs, come on man lol.
But that was not my point.
My point was that the Bucs are not sitting in their draft room going "hmm . . . Lloyd or Hall." They are saying "we are goi to run it back again, but we NEED help on the D-line, particularly INTERIOR."
that NEED-based drafting is flawed, but it was the DIRECT PRICE of the Super Bowl (throw Trask in their too) and that PRICE PAID BY LICHT is much better than most teams. You can see that just by looking at, for example, the Post Super Bowl "first picks" of a team like the rams or the Eagles. OR "first pick" after the Super Bowl is JTS at #32. The Eagles first pick the year after winning the Super Bowl in the 2017 season was . .. NO ONE in the first round because they traded 5 or 6 picks to win the SB (trade up for Wertz) . . so Goedert who they traded up for (we took TRASK), but we also went 13-4 etc.
We took hall based on an IMMEDIATE NEED (and low cost later). The Eagles got Andre Dillard who, to play on Biggs phrase, could really beat out a 7th round Australian tackle.
In other word, post SB drafting is probably not that great for any team. In 2003 we had no 1st round pick (Keyshawn?) and so our "first pick" was Dewayne White.
Thats why I said its a little weird to say Licht cant draft ends pointing to guys like JTS and Hall. The Bucs didnt draft either expecting they would be game wrecking, franchise guys. (Licht has call JTS a "flier" pick on an raw athlete.) They were both NEED picks. Flexible guys who could provide some help hopefully and depth on teams that were INTENTIONALLY the same guys back and then the Brady late shuffle.
Both the PRICE OF A SUPER BOWL . . . and a CHEAP price at that relative to most teams
The Rams traded for Stafford (we signed Brady as a FA and paid a modest price in trade for JPP and Gronk). The Rams win their Super Bowl.
In 2022 they draft no one in the 1st, no one in the 2nd? so their "first pick" is Logan Bruss? They go 5-12.
in 2023, they pick no one in the first so their "first pick" is Steve Avilla. Pretty good? I think he played G and then C now maybe?
So, the Rams paid WAY more than we did for their Super Bowl and their "first picks" after were pretty comparable.
I do not know but I suspect most teams who make a big SB move are similar in their two years post SB
- Tykee Smith’s Standout Performance: Tykee Smith is a complete dawg! He racked up 13 tackles and a sack on Monday night. Besides Vita Vea, he’s playing the best football on the defensive side. He’s a physical tackler, aggressive in pass breakups, and not afraid to talk smack to anyone. Give us 22 Tykee Smiths, and we’ll be just fine!
Tykee Smith:
“I feel comfortable [at safety],” Smith said yesterday. “What are we in, Game 7? I am feeling comfortable as we get more games, the more reps I take and then like I said before, I think the coaches have done a really good job of utilizing me.”
“I really like being able to get two sacks this year without being able to get them last year,” Smith said. “So a big change in that department.”
“Just trying to be involved in any play as much as possible,” Smith said. “[I am] really just trying to make a play for my team anyway possible.
“That is me being involved in a run fit, playing up high, just trying to do a variety of things to help the team win.”
Logan Hall is a liability out there. We have to replace him next year
He's being outplayed by a 5th round rookie.
The run of first-pick defensive players in Devin White, JTS, Logan Hall, & Calijah Kancey has been pretty horrendous. Just imagine if two of those hit.
Comically bad and ignored some easier LB picks right around there
Yeah, too many high picks wasted on poor defensive players. I don’t expect the GM to hit home runs every time, but that run is pretty bad.
Logan Hall is a liability out there. We have to replace him next year
He's being outplayed by a 5th round rookie.
The run of first-pick defensive players in Devin White, JTS, Logan Hall, & Calijah Kancey has been pretty horrendous. Just imagine if two of those hit.
Comically bad and ignored some easier LB picks right around there
Yeah, too many high picks wasted on poor defensive players. I don’t expect the GM to hit home runs every time, but that run is pretty bad.
He's been good in so many other ways but has his shortcomings
Logan Hall is a liability out there. We have to replace him next year
He's being outplayed by a 5th round rookie.
The run of first-pick defensive players in Devin White, JTS, Logan Hall, & Calijah Kancey has been pretty horrendous. Just imagine if two of those hit.
Comically bad and ignored some easier LB picks right around there
Yeah, too many high picks wasted on poor defensive players. I don’t expect the GM to hit home runs every time, but that run is pretty bad.
He's been good in so many other ways but has his shortcomings
For sure. Those picks are misses, but the counter is , as you say, that he's been good (to great) in so many other ways - the "#1 homegrown team" (great drafting) and a Super Bowl and 5 divisions etc, so overall pretty good.
Logan Hall is a liability out there. We have to replace him next year
He's being outplayed by a 5th round rookie.
The run of first-pick defensive players in Devin White, JTS, Logan Hall, & Calijah Kancey has been pretty horrendous. Just imagine if two of those hit.
Comically bad and ignored some easier LB picks right around there
Thinking about it, did LVD ever get paired up with a decent LB throughout his tenure here?
One where he wasn't covering for their numerous deficiencies and mistakes?
Not that I can think of... Another reason why he should be headed to the Hof
Neither can I.
He's played with nothing but garbage next to him.
That being said, "The Savior" might be the worst of them:
"Per PFF, Sirvocea Dennis has surrendered 438 yards in coverage, the worst number in the league by a comfortable margin. Yes, he's given up more yards in coverage than any defensive back in the league. And over 100 yards more than the next closest linebacker. He also has missed NINE (9!) tackles in coverage, tied for the most of any player in the league."
Per Ledyard.
That being said, "The Savior" might be the worst of them:
"Per PFF, Sirvocea Dennis has surrendered 438 yards in coverage, the worst number in the league by a comfortable margin. Yes, he's given up more yards in coverage than any defensive back in the league. And over 100 yards more than the next closest linebacker. He also has missed NINE (9!) tackles in coverage, tied for the most of any player in the league."
Holy hell, I knew it was bad, but damn.
All of the consternation last season about Britt and others, mostly lamenting the great loss of Devin White, but also excusing the poor defensive play because of the loss of the defensive savior early in the year. To bad for the team, but it’s year another example of poor personnel evaluations by the defensive staff & scouts.
another example of poor personnel evaluations by the defensive staff & scouts.
And PFF then. He was their Bucs breakout player for 2024:
"Perhaps this is a really deep sleeper pick for a breakout player in Tampa Bay, but the Buccaneers are more than likely going to be without Devin White, who played over 900 defensive snaps for the team this past season and is set to hit free agency in 2024. And depending on if Lavonte David wants to sign another one-year deal with the team, it’s possible that he could also be gone, leaving a massive hole at linebacker. While Dennis was a fifth-round pick in 2023, he also earned elite PFF run-defense grades in his final college season (92.1), which could be a strength for the team to lean on even if it wants to use him as a sub-package option. He only played 104 defensive snaps as a rookie, with his best PFF grade coming in coverage (72.6) — something that wasn’t necessarily a strength for him in college, so that is somewhat encouraging to see."
Turns out though it was NOT really poor evaluation. Its almost exactly him and just as he was evaluated before the 2023 draft
He's struggling in space, but he's a league leader (#2) in STOPS (a made up PFF stats) and solo tackles, blowing out LVD in both categories. One of the Bucs leaders in TFL, just had a great sack. He's an undersized downhiller who probably takes over LVD's role completely. He's already got the green dot
Not sure thats a poor evaluation by defensive scouts? Maybe by the HC who is relying on him (not LVD) for coverage, a lot of which is MAN. He played zone coverage mostly in college (ie fast closing speed).
But, for the scouts they have a 5th rounder starting and wearing the green dot . . on a 5-2 team, so probably a win? Not quite as big a win as their Super Bowl rings indicate, but they are probably managing okay . . hopefully.
you guys need to keep trashing SVD . . . "MOST IMPRESSIVE"
After a two-game stretch with 19 total tackles, two tackles for loss, and a sack, No. 8 added seven tackles and another sack to his totals in the first quarter. Even more impressive, Dennis held opposing running backs in check. Alvin Kamara was held to just two catches for 24 yards, while rookie sixth-rounder Devin Neal had three catches for 11 yards. Regardless of how you feel about SirVocea Dennis, he is starting to look more like the starting linebacker the Bucs trusted with an important role on defense."
LOL
@bucsbits - if it helps, I will oblige. He showed again his ability to play downhill, but he also looked like a baby deer when trying to tackle Kamara in the open field twice. Let’s see what he looks like again against a defense that is at least top 25.
@bucsbits - if it helps, I will oblige. He showed again his ability to play downhill, but he also looked like a baby deer when trying to tackle Kamara in the open field twice. Let’s see what he looks like again against a defense that is at least top 25.
I am with you 100%.
Thats why I wondered earlier in the season whether the Bucs might see him as more of a replacement for LVD's current role (ie. mostly downhill) and NOT the coverage guy? Unless he improves a lot he is not the answer in coverage.
I think its is the expectation that he would be the answer in coverage that has so many people down on him, but he is otherwise playing well.
TWO THINGS STANDOUT ON THAT POINT:
1. NEVER A COVERAGE GUY -- I took a look back and he was not known for coverage in college. He was known for being a quick closer in zone coverage (ie a speed guy). Not a man cover guy. He doesn't even seem to do the zone part well this season, but he does have the other traits noted in his draft profile - leadership and smarts (green dot now for Bucs), speed and run stopping and blitzing.
2. HE IS AN UPGRADE - Britt was not only useless in coverage, he was useless overall. The coverage stands out though because, again, the expectation was that Dennis would fix that. If you put that aside though, Dennis is a substantial upgrade and part of the reason the defense is performing better. Here's one take that summarizes:
"Through eight games last year, Britt had zero tackles for loss and half a sack. He wasn’t on the stat sheet with an interception or an official pass defensed, either.
Through eight games this season, Dennis has 2 sacks, a team-leading 7 tackles for loss and 59 tackles."
I think teams always have to pick where they cut corners, especially when they have many needs. It seems they decided this season it would be ILB with a now too old (respectfully) LVD and a 5th round pick.
In the preseason, I read that to mean - INCORRECTLY - that they must see Dennis as the solution to the obvious short coverage problems last season. I mean, big problem for sure. Maybe they were just hopeful he might be able to cover. Maybe they see him more like Morrison, who they are clearly training up at CB. Maybe Dennis is the LVD replacement (leader, green dot etc) who they wnated to see if they could adapt to coverage? They go find a coverage guy next year if it doesn't work out? I dont see it working out in coverage, at least not yet.
Who knows? Just a guess. But Dennis has been delivering in a number of phases, just not coverage.
@bucsbits - problem is LVD is a sideline to sideline linebacker. Dennis has to play in small spaces to be successful.
