Our run defense is strong because teams pass at will on us... Or at least that's part of it.
Part of it maybe, but if nothing else Bowles is a committed run stopper, to a fault even. He's usually going with 5 at the line etc. You can find someone like Chris Simms railing against Bowles for it this year and in the past:
"“I don’t even blame the secondary players for the Buccaneers. I blame Todd Bowles for that defense and what he did,” Simms said. “Always put the pressure on the money of your defense. And their money is they have Suh, and Vita Vea who’s 340 pounds, and [Jason Pierre-Paul] and Shaq Barrett, and they have these guys. That’s the strength of their team. How bout you like let them see if they can stop the run, first. Ok. And you have two middle linebackers that are good, too. What are we like worried about? Call their bluff, at first.”
Bowles . . right on cue. Asked how you win playoff football
"“I think you’ve got to take care of the football, I think you’ve got to be able to run it, and I think you’ve got to stop the run,” Bowles said.
One of his years, maybe 2019 or 2020 or run defense is HISTORICALLY good, so much so that teams basically quit trying
So then the weak part of the defense isn't the middle of the run defense. Most of the rushing yards came in the first half of the season when Kancey was out injured and working his way back into shape. The second half of the season when Kancey was fully healthy and that's when the run defense was at its best In the last eight games the Bucs have held opponents to 91 rushing yards or less. In three straight games they gave up 32, 31 and 39 yards rushing to the Chargers, Panthers and Cowboys. Kancey has a 71% snap count, higher than Vea's 67%. I guess Kancey was garbage when they were giving up 30 something yards per game. He must have given up at least 10 of those yards all by himself!Kancey is doing great. He’s a huge part of the reason our run D is so strong. I think he’ll start to show out in the playoffs if he’s truly healthy.
Our run defense is strong because teams pass at will on us... Or at least that's part of it.
Kancey doesn't show up in the run game often... Not often enough for where we took him.
Give it up, guys.
Wtf are you even trying to say here? Give it up guys?
You think this proves something?
Rush defense is about gap integrity and the Bucs have too many missed tackles from LBs and safeties. Kancey isn't that good but he isn't that bad either. I think the high rush defensive ranking is a little misleading because of how easy it was to pass on this secondary because of Bowles play calling and injuries.
Wtf are you even trying to say here? Give it up guys?
You think this proves something?
Look sorry I said "Give it up", but I'm at a loss here. I'm not an expert, and I'm not watching game film. I just watch the games. Here are the stats for the main running backs for the last two months. Can one of the board experts please explain to me how a run defender can be atrocious when only one running back in the last two months got more than 43 yards. Sure some of them suck, but how is a run defender being atrocious when they aren't getting yards? Is there some other measure of running success other than yards? I'd like to be educated. Thanks in advance!
Edwards-Helaire 8 carries for 26 yards
Raheem Blacksheer 8 for 20
Rico Dowdle 13 for 23
Gus Edwards 8 for 23
Sincere McCormick 15 for 78
Chubba Hubbard 12 for 43
Tyrone Tracy 9 for 42
Christian McCaffrey 13 for 39.
1.) those RBs are straight ass. McCaffrey being the only good one and that was his first game back, Purdy threw for almost 400 yards etc. look at that list with a straight face... Cmon now.
2.) we're examining his ability to stop the run, not the teams.
3.) teams pass on us a lot.
4.) our d-line has players that are good vs the run and can't pass rush... Thus all the blitzes. So that masks his inefficiency and lack of production.
5.) Pff grade (albeit take that with a grain of salt)
Simeon Rice couldn’t defend the pass!
Brad Culpepper could get sacks!
if anything the critique on Kancey is availability.
Vea is playing out of his mind and has played 4 more games and yet they’re tied (?) in sacks or close and Kancey leads in TFL?
he’s doing just fine. Every player is only expected to maximize their strength. His is speed of the line. He uses it to disrupt, pass and run.
Look sorry I said "Give it up", but I'm at a loss here. I'm not an expert, and I'm not watching game film. I just watch the games. Here are the stats for the main running backs for the last two months. Can one of the board experts please explain to me how a run defender can be atrocious when only one running back in the last two months got more than 43 yards. Sure some of them suck, but how is a run defender being atrocious when they aren't getting yards? Is there some other measure of running success other than yards? I'd like to be educated. Thanks in advance!
You’ve already been told in this thread. Just because a team is great at any one thing doesn’t mean that all 11 starters and their backups are great at that one thing. I’m really not sure how else to say it.
And the “Bucs only defend the run well because passing is so easy” is silly and lazy
it is those things because Bowles has a 5 year track record of mostly good run stopping teams. If anything he OVERprioritizes it
yes the pass d struggles
And the “Bucs only defend the run well because passing is so easy” is silly and lazy
it is those things because Bowles has a 5 year track record of mostly good run stopping teams. If anything he OVERprioritizes it
yes the pass d struggles
But it does add context. We've had some atrocious defenses the past decade that were #1 vs the run and top 5 worst against the pass. It isn't just Bowles.
When teams can throw on you, you don't run the ball.
And again this isn't to say Kancey is awful but clearly he is a liability vs the run.
That also doesn't mean he's made ZERO plays against the run but he's undersized playing in the middle so he gets run out of his gap too often.
Vea is playing out of his mind and has played 4 more games and yet they’re tied (?) in sacks or close and Kancey leads in TFL?
You're comparing a run stuffer in Vea who is giving us EXTRA vs the pass rush when we need it most to Kancey who is an interior pass rush specialist that needs to improve vs the run.
Vea also has a whopping 50 pressures vs Kancey who has 39 while playing a higher snap percentage (as he should he's like 90 pounds lighter than Vea).
OK I appreciate you trying.1.) those RBs are straight ass. McCaffrey being the only good one and that was his first game back, Purdy threw for almost 400 yards etc. look at that list with a straight face... Cmon now.
2.) we're examining his ability to stop the run, not the teams.
3.) teams pass on us a lot.
4.) our d-line has players that are good vs the run and can't pass rush... Thus all the blitzes. So that masks his inefficiency and lack of production.
5.) Pff grade (albeit take that with a grain of salt)
Hubbard averaged 4.8 YPC for about 1200 and he had 3.6 YPC against us.
Alvin Kamara had 3.9 YPC for 40 yards.
Bijan Robinson 4.8 for 63 yards his season average YPC.
Tyler Allegier 12 for 33 at 2.8 YPC.
I went back and looked at McCormicks game and he had two big plays, one a defensive back whiffed on a tackle and the other was a pitch to the outside.
YPC in 12 games Kancey was in - NO 3.4, CAR 3.0, DAL 1.6, LAC 2.9, LV 3.6, CAR 3.7, NYG 3.8, SF 3.4, KC 3.5, ATL 4.4, NO 3.9 BAL- no comment.
Derrick Henry beat the hell out of us for 11.3 YPC. That was 1 game of 12. The league average is 4.4 YPC and if you throw out the Baltimore game the Bucs gave up roughly 3.5 YPC in Kancey games. 3.8 with BAL game included.
You're comparing a run stuffer in Vea who is giving us EXTRA vs the pass rush when we need it most to Kancey who is an interior pass rush specialist that needs to improve vs the run.
well, so says PFF . . . he's got more tackles for a loss than Vea right?
Again, could be totally right BUT it seesma. tough "flaw" to suggest, especially when its tough to rely on PFF's one-size-fits-all approach and his run snaps are so low, relatively speaking.
Either way though, hewas drafted for his interior pass rush, right? That was what the Bucs wanted in their already strong run defense. So, familiar name Rakheem Nunez Roches grades out better as a run stopper.
He also has 3 sacks to Kancey's 7.5. He has 13 pressures to Kancey's 40.
can Kancey improve at run stopping? sure.
One way would be to put on MORE weight . .. that would slow him down
Doubt its Kancey's run defense that plays the pivotal role in the playoff game. They have a good running attack (even without Daniels) so maybe?
But the real problem should be that we dont have any easy answer for Daniels' running. The Falcons sometime left a spy in on him and he still ran for 127 yards,mclauren
often for a key first down.
The Falcons also had a cover corner who basically took McLaurin out of the game. We dont really have that.
And I am not sure who wins an LVD versus Ertz matchup
I guess we will all see. Go Bucs
You're comparing a run stuffer in Vea
We hear announcers say this all of the time, but it’s simply not true. “Run stuffer” implies Vea is like other huge players in the past like Haloti Ngata. He was a “run stuffer” in that took up blocks and double teams so other guys (usually Ray Lewis) could stay clean and make tackles. That’s not Vea. He much more a penetrator, which is really rare for his size.
That’s not to say Ngata couldn’t bull rush a guy to get to the QB, of course he could. And that’s also not to say Vea can’t take on double teams, of course he can. But while those guys may be similar in size, their games were/are very different.
So, familiar name Rakheem Nunez Roches grades out better as a run stopper.
He also has 3 sacks to Kancey's 7.5. He has 13 pressures to Kancey's 40.
But those are pass rushing stats.
Nobody is saying Kancey hasn't shown some great moves on passing down. Nobody is saying Roches is better.
