@firebowles2026 - I couldn’t have said it better myself. Licht has gone through drafts where he’s gotten comfortable with the roster, lost focus, and made luxury picks. So many of those higher pick luxuries haven’t worked out.
@firebowles2026 - I couldn’t have said it better myself. Licht has gone through drafts where he’s gotten comfortable with the roster, lost focus, and made luxury picks. So many of those higher pick luxuries haven’t worked out.
It's fine if you hit but if you big brain and miss it's two strikes.
Egbuka was a big brain pick and he hit so we forgive it.
1. The origin of this problem stems from Licht’s miss evaluation on Creed Humphrey in 2021. He could have taken him at 32 or moved up from 64. Instead he flushed 64 down the toilet and took Hainsey in the 3rd.
J. Scheider could have taken Creed Humphries too but he settled for taking OL in the mid rounds instead and was forced to use a 1st round pick later on Zabel to fix that mistake.
The idea that you can take centers and guards mid round and not pay a price is not congruent with modern NFL game. If you need to fix a spot and anchor an alpha you take that guard or center round 1.
Licht didn't hesitate to pull the trigger on Barton and I do not blame him.
In fact if the Bucs passed on Barton I wouldn't been surprised if the Bucs traded up for Zabel to leap frog the Seahawks to following draft. Of course would have the Seahawks have taken EE though with JSN already in the fold?
The main point about Barton or any center for that matter is that centers are picked in the first round at a lessor rate than any position. Thru the years centers were drafted in the 1st with only 3-5 per decade from the 70s to 00s. In the 8-year period between 2016 and 2024, only six centers were drafted in the first round. Center is important, but good centers can be found much easier outside the first round. And Barton being average so far doesn’t meet the value of taking a center at that spot.
The Seahawks do not win the Super Bowl if J. Scheider stuck to his archaic way of thinking of drafting centers and guards in the mid round. The Seahawks would not trade Zabel for an edge rusher that gives them 10 sacks. In fact did the Seahawks win a SB with a guy with double digit sacks? I do not even remember if the had any guy hit that mark on the Seahawks defense.
Not sure what the Seahawks have to do with us. They won the Super Bowl but that doesn’t mean it’s the blue print on how to build your roster. Licht has to chart his own course based on the roster.
Easterling is the only other person I’ve seen mock OL to the Bucs but my only gripe with his Ioane pick is that the Bucs need a LG with tackle versatility because at this point Licht has to plan for Wirfs and Goedeke to miss games. That’s why I like Proctor and Lomu for us. Can hit edge and LB in rounds 2 and 3.
Alldaway- you have some good thoughts at times, but you lose when you try to prove your point by saying Diaby is better than Verse
No one said Diaby is better than Verse. But Verse is not performing at the level he is now if he was a Buc that I can guarantee.
You can't accept that Bowles and his coaching staff is the blackhole for many young promising players and become progressively worse as time goes on by. Winfield Jr. T. Smith, etc. I rest my case.
And stop with the Seahawks comparisons. Two completely different teams. And one has a great defensive coordinator. And Barton is no Zabol. Again, bad pick in that first round.
You don't like the comparison because it points out the flaws with your thinking. Barton is going to be a very good player like Zabel for a long time.
Seahawks didn't bail on the edges they drafted at all when they could have as Mafe and the rest were giving mixed results. Mac correctly diagnosed their problems on defense by trading for a competent ILB.
And then they reinforced their middle (drafting Murph) and added a veteran edge which led to their defensive improvement. Bucs don't need a home run double digit edge like you and JC believe will propel the Bucs to 'glory" days. Bucs need a competent pair of ILB starting and a young edge to play opposite of Diaby. And another inside defensive lineman to rotate with Vea and protect against Kancey injury. This isn't madden this is reality of the NFL.
You and JC are stuck in the old way of thinking and in the modern NFL it is about take ways and turnovers with defense. Not paying a one guy to have 10+ sacks.
1. The origin of this problem stems from Licht’s miss evaluation on Creed Humphrey in 2021. He could have taken him at 32 or moved up from 64. Instead he flushed 64 down the toilet and took Hainsey in the 3rd.
J. Scheider could have taken Creed Humphries too but he settled for taking OL in the mid rounds instead and was forced to use a 1st round pick later on Zabel to fix that mistake.
The idea that you can take centers and guards mid round and not pay a price is not congruent with modern NFL game. If you need to fix a spot and anchor an alpha you take that guard or center round 1.
Licht didn't hesitate to pull the trigger on Barton and I do not blame him.
In fact if the Bucs passed on Barton I wouldn't been surprised if the Bucs traded up for Zabel to leap frog the Seahawks to following draft. Of course would have the Seahawks have taken EE though with JSN already in the fold?
The main point about Barton or any center for that matter is that centers are picked in the first round at a lessor rate than any position. Thru the years centers were drafted in the 1st with only 3-5 per decade from the 70s to 00s. In the 8-year period between 2016 and 2024, only six centers were drafted in the first round. Center is important, but good centers can be found much easier outside the first round. And Barton being average so far doesn’t meet the value of taking a center at that spot.
The Seahawks do not win the Super Bowl if J. Scheider stuck to his archaic way of thinking of drafting centers and guards in the mid round. The Seahawks would not trade Zabel for an edge rusher that gives them 10 sacks. In fact did the Seahawks win a SB with a guy with double digit sacks? I do not even remember if the had any guy hit that mark on the Seahawks defense.
Not sure what the Seahawks have to do with us. They won the Super Bowl but that doesn’t mean it’s the blue print on how to build your roster. Licht has to chart his own course based on the roster.
Easterling is the only other person I’ve seen mock OL to the Bucs but my only gripe with his Ioane pick is that the Bucs need a LG with tackle versatility because at this point Licht has to plan for Wirfs and Goedeke to miss games. That’s why I like Proctor and Lomu for us. Can hit edge and LB in rounds 2 and 3.
The Seahawks had major flaw at ILB and they traded for a ILB (Earnest Jones) to fix that flaw. Then they went and signed a veteran like Lawrence to help compliment their edge group (Hall and Mafe). Even though they had Reed they still traded for Williams and then drafted Murphy.
The Seahawks have a talented back end like the Bucs.
And the Seahawks run a similar variation to short shallow, quarters/off coverage/cover 3 like the Bucs. Difference is their DBS actually rotate properly and they have Spoon and Emmanwori is their joker on the backend to move around for Mac as a chess piece. Bowles does a similar thing with Parrish.
Bucs need to:
1. Fix ILB like the Sehawks did
2. Add a true talented DL to play with Vea and Kancey. Roberts is promising but you need a fourth and Gaines isn't cutting it anymore. No point re-signing him.
3. Bucs need to add two veteran edge rushers and draft another to team with current edge rushers.
@alldaway - Let’s stop and take a breath. I'm sharing my perspective on the current situation, while you're exploring possibilities. I assert that Verse is a better player than Diaby, and you counter that Verse wouldn't perform as well on the Bucs. That's a subjective viewpoint.
Similarly, I believe Zabel is better than Barton, and you suggest that Barton WILL eventually develop into a player like Zabel. Again, that's a matter of opinion. As it stands today, we align with my assessment while your claims remain speculative.
maybe this was part of it
"By way of NextGen Stats, when the Bucs had to rely on Buffalo castoff Dan Feeney and (not that) Michael Jordan, the Bucs were starting two of the worst guards in the game."
maybe this was part of it
"By way of NextGen Stats, when the Bucs had to rely on Buffalo castoff Dan Feeney and (not that) Michael Jordan, the Bucs were starting two of the worst guards in the game."
which makes you hope he get a solid back up guard AND tackle
i know theres only so much money to go around but the shit depth at guard position certainly hampered the teams effectiveness on offense
Barton played poorly the year prior with Mauch and Breadson playing well so... That cuts both ways.
i know theres only so much money to go around but the shit depth at guard position certainly hampered the teams effectiveness on offense
To be fair, Tampa’s OL depth wasn’t different than the overwhelming majority of the league. Very few teams have legitimate OL depth. It’s a difficult position to play in the NFL.
Barton played poorly the year prior with Mauch and Breadson playing well so... That cuts both ways.
In all fairness, Bredeson sucks and has sucked since he's been here.
Should've never been signed to an extension.
Big mistake by Licht.
Barton played poorly the year prior with Mauch and Breadson playing well so... That cuts both ways.
In all fairness, Bredeson sucks and has sucked since he's been here.
Should've never been signed to an extension.
Big mistake by Licht.
Barton doesn't really grade out that much better than Breadson.
Breadson can play center and in limited reps played well.
I'm not saying he's great but he also wasn't a first round pick.
Mauch is a good RG... So while Barton was in fact playing with two scrubs most of the year he wasn't a world beater as you'd expect from a first round center.
Bad signing by Licht on Breadson and so far a bad pick in Barton.
But the third year seems to be an important pivot point so hopefully Barton turns a corner and stops playing like a JAG.
Should we consider signing Becton?
Should we consider signing Becton?
He's an upgrade over Bredenson.
But, unfortunately for us, Licht has a hard on for him.