Once you pass critical mass (1 or 2 more losses?), and scared money instantly converts to mad-money.Its not just bad memories, there's a lot of data that, more often than not with this franchise, coaching changes bring a lot of losses.I’m not saying that a change isn’t warranted, I’m only saying that history shows it’s fools gold to think a coaching change will quick-fix the Bucs into a contender.
This is a 12-win team with Coen as head coach.
I get the hesitancy with going through a "real" coaching regime search. It brings back bad memories.
But, this team is going nowhere with Todd at the helm.
We've simply been lucky to be in such a dogshit division for the past several years.
Like I said, I’m not saying a change isn’t warranted, but if we’re at that point, you can’t always get what you want…
...but if you try sometimes, well, you just might find, you get what you need, ohhhhh yeah
Gotta swing for the fences if you want the ultimate prize.
Scared money don't make money.
Emotional money, does that make money?
According to Barber this team has average talent and their record reflects this. Maybe it isn't a forgone conclusion that Bowles is on the way out. Fundamentally though a lot of draft pick resources have been thrown toward the defensive backfield and it still is a work in progress four years later. Doesn't make sense logically as Dean is playing at a high level and you have Winfield/Smith as your safeties which are two of the best safeties in the NFL.
The problem is the play calling just like last season is starting to become a problem. Where are the shallow middle zone robbers that used to be called? No point having Smith and Winfield Jr sit in a cover 2 shell over the top constantly if you don't have the MLB to drop deep in the middle to defend the middle. LVD is no Derrick Brooks or Shelton Quarles (maybe in his prime).
i dont get the average talent comment
heading into the year, he had a top 10 QB in Baker Mayfield.
Would argue that supporting cast is better than average, albeit injured, but no excuse for the collapse Thursday. The last 2 losses had nothing to do with injuries or facing quality teams. They were bad losses.
i dont think anyone would be claiming for Bowles to be fired if we were sitting at 9-5 right now. We'd probably have the 'ole...here we go again, we are pretenders" but pretenders is much better than whatever the hell the last 2 games were.
defense talent is also improved from a year ago. Sure you have teams loaded like Eagles, but look at Patriots and Jaguars and tell me they have more star power on defense then the Bucs do.
defense talent is also improved from a year ago.
I think Alldaway was talking about defensive talent. Improved yes. Complete, no?
Two things can be true. Bowles can be worthy of being fired AND the defense can still be a work-in-progress.
WIP is pretty obvious just by looking at the front 7 or just the way they have been drafting or picking up Reddick. If an new HC comes in does anyone think he is going with KVD and SVD and Anthony Nelson and Hall? Kancey even? Dean will be gone. Did we draft a replacement? he was benched for Vildor. The other guy, McCollum, has gone to shit.
So, if you look at it from a NEW coach perspective wouldn't you expect pretty substantial change?
Certainly does not mean that it excuses CURRENT scheme and leadership problems on defense. Those are on Bowles.
Yeah I think Barber's comment was directed at the defense. The front seven is looking very average. Is Hall going to be re-signed? Gaines, Simmons, Nelson are depth players but none of them are really stand outs with Nelson in spots. Maybe the Bucs have something with Roberts? Vea is going to be 31 next year. LVD isn't coming back and Dennis as a future starter on this team is in question. Diaby might the only safe starter on that front seven with Vea. Kancey? Who knows? Reddick is a one year stop gap and proved to do the job if Diaby keeps ascending but by no means a long term fix. Walker seems like a nice third edge off the bench but I wouldn't pencil him as a starting ROLB/RDE opposite of Diaby without seeing him against larger NFL competition.
So you are looking at needing to add at least 1-2 DL, 2 edge rushers and maybe 2 ILB to compete with Dennis, Bullock, Jackson and Jones. And if Dean isn't coming back you need to draft another DB to have in the wings for depth to push Parrish, Morrison, and McCollum.
^^^
The Bucs need to be active in the free agent market this off season. Lot of holes to fill.
What makes you think it would be a different DC than who he has in Jacksonville where they are 10-4? Coaches hire the people they know, or who people they know give their approval.
I suppose it's possible he would have kept somebody on this staff, but I'm guessing he saw this defensive staff isn't all that great.
Jacksonville Jaguars' Defensive Coordinator is Anthony Campanile, who was hired in January 2025, bringing an aggressive, fast-paced defensive scheme from his previous role as Linebackers Coach and Run Game Coordinator for the Green Bay Packers. He's known for a physical, attacking style, following a tenure with the Miami Dolphins and building on the new foundation set by Head Coach Liam Coen.
I say hire him away from Coen for Bucs HC. How do you like it, Liam? Turnabout if fair play.
I say hire him away from Coen for Bucs HC. How do you like it, Liam? Turnabout if fair play.
Joke, right?
The talent this year has been below average. Our strengths last year have been destroyed by injury and Licht didn’t upgrade the weaknesses.
The talent this year has been below average. Our strengths last year have been destroyed by injury and Licht didn’t upgrade the weaknesses.
injuries are no excuse for the last 2 losses
I’d argue our Defense roster is more talented this year but a worse product. Do you agree? Tell me why not.
Licht could not have developed a more talented offensive roster. Injuries did hurt our output but honestly I still had this team at 10-4 (2 gimme wins that we somehow lost to Atlanta and New Orleans at home, plus add another win, maybe New England that results in a win with healthy team)
at 7-5, there was an excuse for injuries albeit my view is that our record wasn’t much different
At 7-7, what the heck happened?
at 7-8, locker room must be lost
at 8-7, depends how we look, but we love to fight another day
The talent this year has been below average. Our strengths last year have been destroyed by injury and Licht didn’t upgrade the weaknesses.
injuries are no excuse for the last 2 losses
I’d argue our Defense roster is more talented this year but a worse product. Do you agree? Tell me why not.
Licht could not have developed a more talented offensive roster. Injuries did hurt our output but honestly I still had this team at 10-4 (2 gimme wins that we somehow lost to Atlanta and New Orleans at home, plus add another win, maybe New England that results in a win with healthy team)
at 7-5, there was an excuse for injuries albeit my view is that our record wasn’t much different
At 7-7, what the heck happened?
at 7-8, locker room must be lost
at 8-7, depends how we look, but we love to fight another day
Licht built a great starting offense, sure. But there was no depth on the offensive line. All we heard in the offseason was Elijah Klein this, Elijah Klein that and he sucks. If he can’t play over Jordan and Feeney then he shouldn’t be on the team. I have no idea how we’re going to block Derrick Brown and A’Shawn Robinson.
When Kieft broke his leg he needed to replace him with another fullback type. We can’t run in short yardage now.
We have no edge presence. That’s on Licht. ILBs are terrible. That’s on Licht. He’s put himself into a corner where the only option is to trade for Crosby. Diaby is limited. Braswell has nothing.
Everything Bowles does is scrutinized but Licht gets a free pass. Since the Super Bowl he’s used two 1s and two 2s on DL and there’s nothing to show for it.
The talent this year has been below average. Our strengths last year have been destroyed by injury and Licht didn’t upgrade the weaknesses.
Licht drafted 2 WRs which prevented the Bucs from slumping earlier in the year. Also drafted two front seven players and two DBs. Can't draft and address all weaknesses in one draft this isn't Madden.
The talent this year has been below average. Our strengths last year have been destroyed by injury and Licht didn’t upgrade the weaknesses.
injuries are no excuse for the last 2 losses
I’d argue our Defense roster is more talented this year but a worse product. Do you agree? Tell me why not.
Licht could not have developed a more talented offensive roster. Injuries did hurt our output but honestly I still had this team at 10-4 (2 gimme wins that we somehow lost to Atlanta and New Orleans at home, plus add another win, maybe New England that results in a win with healthy team)
at 7-5, there was an excuse for injuries albeit my view is that our record wasn’t much different
At 7-7, what the heck happened?
at 7-8, locker room must be lost
at 8-7, depends how we look, but we love to fight another day
Yeah injuries this late in the season is just an out for Bowles which doesn't seem right to me.
Bucs since the bye have become healthier and healthier and were more competitive earlier in the year with MORE injured players and more rookies seeing playing time like Egbuka, Johnson, Parrish, Roberts.
Also, the Bucs injuries along the OL earlier in the year were forced to start 4th/5th string players. NO GM in the NFL can plan and draft enough depth to have for 4th/5th string. Again this isn''t Madden.
If the Bucs drafted 2 OL in the 2025 draft it would mean the Bucs would be short a DB and WR or even Roberts isn't on the roster. That would be just as bad. The NFL draft only allows a finite amount of draft picks which is why teams that build through the draft like the Bucs take multiple drafts to address needs, development and also depth.
The talent this year has been below average. Our strengths last year have been destroyed by injury and Licht didn’t upgrade the weaknesses.
injuries are no excuse for the last 2 losses
I’d argue our Defense roster is more talented this year but a worse product. Do you agree? Tell me why not.
Licht could not have developed a more talented offensive roster. Injuries did hurt our output but honestly I still had this team at 10-4 (2 gimme wins that we somehow lost to Atlanta and New Orleans at home, plus add another win, maybe New England that results in a win with healthy team)
at 7-5, there was an excuse for injuries albeit my view is that our record wasn’t much different
At 7-7, what the heck happened?
at 7-8, locker room must be lost
at 8-7, depends how we look, but we love to fight another day
Licht built a great starting offense, sure. But there was no depth on the offensive line. All we heard in the offseason was Elijah Klein this, Elijah Klein that and he sucks. If he can’t play over Jordan and Feeney then he shouldn’t be on the team. I have no idea how we’re going to block Derrick Brown and A’Shawn Robinson.
When Kieft broke his leg he needed to replace him with another fullback type. We can’t run in short yardage now.
We have no edge presence. That’s on Licht. ILBs are terrible. That’s on Licht. He’s put himself into a corner where the only option is to trade for Crosby. Diaby is limited. Braswell has nothing.
Everything Bowles does is scrutinized but Licht gets a free pass. Since the Super Bowl he’s used two 1s and two 2s on DL and there’s nothing to show for it.
Did Bowles not have a say in the defensive players drafted? I agree it's more on the GM and by no way am i saying our defense is loaded with talent but it should at least be top 20 and it's not even that. Have to think that's a reflection the defensive coordinator and coaching staff.
like i said before, compare Patriots defensive unit to Bucs defensive unit and tell me why one is top 10 versus the other bottom 10.
injuries are no excuse for the last 2 losses
Thats just not right. Its like a blind mantra that people say because they hear coaches say that at the podium. And usually advocating a position, in this case Bowles should be fired. Thats why the word "excuse" is used instead of IMPACTED.
It is undeniable that the injuries IMPACTED this season and last DIFFERENTLY, whether that is an EXCUSE is a subjective opinion.
Heres are TWO simple ways to see the IMPACT of Bucs injuries in 2025, both an external and internal comparison of the offense
Objectively speaking, we have a better offensive line than the Rams who crushed us in 2025. I say objectively speaking because our average draft position is round 2.0 and the Rams are 2.6. So our O-LINE starting line up versus their starting line up, we win in terms of average draft position.
BUT, the RAMS offensive line starters are on the field an average of 82% of the 2025 snaps.
By comparison, the Bucs BETTER offensive line is ONLY on the field this season for 60% of the snaps AND that is with Barton being 100% on the field, so 50 plus snaps or more at LT (I forget if he played LT more than 1 game).
Think about that. AND IT GETS MORE STARK than that.
Beside shuffling guys all over the line, our # back up 0line player (by snaps) is Michael Jordan. He is a 4th rounder who I think most say sucks. And he was out a lot of the season. So we had Dan Feney and others in, while for example Heck is playing LT.
BUT TO JUST SIMPLIFY IT, in 2024 our starting offensive line unit is on the field 92% of the snaps
If you take O-line on for 60% of the snaps in 2025 compared to 92% of the snaps in 2024 . .. and then throw in the skill player drop off too:
Godwin 30% availability (35% in 2024 and record setting early)
Bucky Irving 30% availability (45% in 2024 but because he's splitting time)
Evans 22% availability (59% in 2024 and setting records).
McMillan 3% availability. (55% in 2024 but because he's a roiokie)
Most of 2025 those skill players are ALL OUT together. Compare that to 2024 Evans and McMillan picking up for Godwin out and Irving coming on strong.Egbuka olffsets that some, so credit to Licht for a pick that puzzled many people here.
INJURIES MATTER.
Someone else can decide if they are an "excuse." The Bucs saus si last year wiht LESS injuries (argubaly). I dont know they say that again this year and one reason for that would be a relative healthy defense being the problem.
