The PewterReport.com Roundtable features the opinions of the PR staff as it tackles a topic each week that involves the Bucs.

This week’s topic: Is Bucs QB Winston Still Salvageable?

Scott Reynolds: One More Disastrous Game And Winston Is Done

You heard Bucs head coach Bruce Arians on Monday when he was asked about whether or not Sunday’s six-turnover game from Jameis Winston changed his opinion of Tampa Bay’s beleaguered quarterback: “If it happens again, yeah, it’ll concern the hell out of me.” That is a warning to Winston, that despite being five games into Arians’ system and tutelage, having a hand in six turnovers in an 11-point loss to Carolina on Sunday will not be tolerated anymore. And it shouldn’t.

Despite being six games in to a new offense with new coaches, Winston is also five years into being an NFL quarterback. He should know by now not to take sacks. He should know by now to throw the ball away to avoid sacks, sack-fumbles or interceptions. Like Arians said in his Monday press conference, “incompletions won’t get you beat.” And when Winston is throwing the ball away he should be careful in doing so, unlike when he threw a pick-six when trying to throw the ball away against San Francisco in a loss in the season opener.

Bucs QB Jameis Winston
Bucs QB Jameis Winston – Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR

But instead of being a careful quarterback, Winston has been careless with 10 interceptions and a fumble through six games. That’s an average of nearly two turnovers per game, and that simply can’t continue. Lesser quarterbacks like Carolina’s Kyle Allen, New Orleans’ Teddy Bridgewater, San Francisco’s Jimmy Garoppolo and Indianapolis’ Jacoby Brissett are far more careful with the football and their teams have winning records to show for it as a result.

So when I say that one more disastrous game and Winston is done, I don’t mean that he’ll be benched in favor of Ryan Griffin this season. I mean he’s done, as in finished in Tampa Bay as the team’s quarterback. That means no big contract extension and no franchise tag for Winston next year if that occurs. What does another disastrous game for Winston look like by definition? It’s a game with three or more Winston turnovers, or perhaps a game in which he throws a couple of picks and no touchdowns, and he’s the clear culprit of yet another Buccaneers loss.

With a 2-4 record, time is running out on Tampa Bay’s 2019 season, and Winston’s future with the Bucs. Winston and the Bucs would have to finish the year 6-4 just to end up with a .500 record. Do you see that happening? In order for six wins or more to occur, Winston would have to stop playing Superman, throw the ball away and be more careful with the ball, and be far less careless with it. And if I’m being honest, if Winston hasn’t grasped that five years into his NFL career – and six games into the Arians era – I don’t think he will, unfortunately. There’s another disastrous game on the way before this season is through.

Mark Cook: There’s Plenty To Be Concerned About, But Winston Is Definitely Salvageable

Tampa Bay’s 37-26 loss to Carolina in London was ugly. There is no way to sugarcoat it. But to throw in the towel on quarterback Jameis Winston after six games, playing in a new offense with a new coaching staff and missing the right side of the Bucs offensive line isn’t anything head coach Bruce Arians is going to do. That is ludicrous.

Looking back at Winston’s six turnovers, some were really bad. None more than the fumble lost inside Panthers’ territory with the Bucs still in the game in the first half. But on Winston’s first interception, Arians said wide receiver Mike Evans needed to come back for the ball and didn’t correctly run the route. Two of Winston’s interceptions came as a result of being hit as he was throwing the ball, and the last one to Evans with seconds left was just a lack of effort on Evans part. It was man coverage and Evans should win that match-up at least half the time – if not more. At the very least Evans needs to play defender and break up the pass. Winston 100 percent made the right read on that play.

Bucs QB Jameis Winston
Bucs QB Jameis Winston – Photo by: Roger McQueen/PR

Yes, I am aware that Winston isn’t a rookie. And yes, I’m aware of some other really bad games from Winston. His four-interception rookie debut against Tennessee comes to mind, as does his four-turnover disaster in Cincinnati last year that got Winston benched for a stretch. But how quickly fans forget the 55-40 win at Los Angeles earlier this year. Or the stretch of games this season that saw Winston throw 10 touchdowns to only two interceptions. It isn’t like Winston doesn’t have the ability to play good, winning football.

The turnovers are frustrating, and have plagued Winston since his final year at Florida State. Maybe this is who Winston is, but that doesn’t mean that the Bucs can’t win with him. Now teams won’t ever win a game when its quarterback turns the ball over six times, but the four losses this season can’t be blamed completely on the quarterback.

There’s no doubt that it is getting harder and harder to defend Winston and his incredible turnover rate since entering the league in 2015. But put a decent defense around him, give him some more games in the new system and perhaps we won’t see Winston feeling like he must be Superman every game in order for the team to win. Winston has been conditioned to feel the need to put the team on his back based on the porous defense that he has had nearly his whole time in Tampa Bay.

Can he snap out of that mentality and cut down on the turnovers? Arians believes he can, and only time will tell, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water after just six games. No way, no how. Let’s see how the rest of the season plays out over the coming 10 weeks before passing a final judgment on Winston.

Trevor Sikkema: Of Course, But How Much Is That Worth?

It’s funny that we’re asking this question, isn’t it? Since we didn’t exactly learn anything new from Tampa Bay’s 37-26 loss to Carolina. Last Sunday’s turnover-fest from Jameis Winston wasn’t the first from him in his career, it was just the latest. Sure, people were disappointed in Winston’s performance, but shocked? As if they couldn’t believe this could happen? The only one in the world who seemed to act like that was Bruce Arians.

Is Winston salvageable? Sure. I think the answer here is: of course he is. There are plenty of examples for this. You can point to some of Ben Roethlisberger’s bounce-back seasons, you can look at guys like Drew Brees being later bloomers into what became the prime of their careers in their late 20s and early 30s, and you can even look at Carson Palmer’s first six or seven games with Bruce Arians in Arizona compared to his next eight and see that there was a drastic improvement.

Bucs QB Jameis Winston
Bucs QB Jameis Winston – Photo by: Getty Images

Is he salvageable? Yes. The real question is, how much is “salvageable” worth? Is it worth a long-term extension this offseason? Many would tell you no. Is it worth the franchise tag? That’s likely a fully guaranteed, one-year, $25 million deal for 2020. If Winston hasn’t become the guy Tampa Bay wants him to become in five years of play, even if he has a great year next year on the tag, are the Bucs really just going to blindly trust it as the new Winston and act like the past five years are gone for good? Unlikely.

All of that to say that yes, Winston is salvageable, and I think he has the head coach around him to do be salvaged. But the fact that we’re asking this question sort of makes you want to splash cold water on your face, slap yourself or whatever it is and just say, “How did we get here?”

Taylor Jenkins: Winston’s Ability To Be Salvaged Is Officially In Doubt

Jameis Winston has always had excuses from his supporters throughout his time in the NFL, all absolutely being valid to an extent. Whether it has been a bad defense forcing Winston to play the dreaded “Superman” role, or bad offensive line play, or a bad running game or a much-needed coaching change.

Even this season Winston had the benefit of the doubt in a new offensive system with Bruce Arians, the quarterback whisperer, in his corner. But this past Sunday’s six-turnover performance has put even the most fervent Winston supporters in doubt, and that has to include Arians to an extent.

Bucs QB Jameis Winston
Bucs QB Jameis Winston – Photo by: Getty Images

Now it hasn’t been all bad, quite the opposite in fact. Over a two-week span Winston was one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL coming off back-to-back games against the Giants and Rams where he was nearly perfect, with the exception of a regrettable interception in each. He also had a pretty good game against the Panthers in Week 2, a less-than-stellar showing against the Saints in Week 5 and performances that gave Tampa Bay little to no chance of winning in Week 1 against San Francisco and Week 6 versus Carolina.

Therein lies the problem. Winston’s talent, his work ethic, his leadership, his football IQ have never been questioned by anyone whose opinion matters, but his inconsistency is downright self-destructive for someone who must be trusted to perform as a franchise quarterback.

This fifth-year quarterback is fantastic at his best, but he will actively lose Bucs games at his worst. He makes mistakes when his back is against the wall that are simply unacceptable for a potential franchise quarterback in his fifth year, and it has to put into question whether his play cannot only be consistent enough to expect playoff appearances, but consistent enough to rattle off three or four consecutive wins against premier competition once you get there.

I’m not saying Winston isn’t salvageable, but it’s looking less likely every time he goes out and plays like he did on Sunday. It’s been six weeks into the 2019 season, and after a much-needed bye week, the final 10 weeks that follow will be the ultimate proving ground for both Winston and Arians. Can Arians calm the storm that is Jameis Winston on a week-to-week basis? Can Winston learn to stay calm and avoid forcing his play, even when his back is to the wall and the moment is at its biggest? If not, there will be a very tough decision to make in the coming offseason. Or perhaps Winston will make that decision rather easy with his play – one way or the other.

Matt Matera: Winston Can Be Salvaged, But He Has To Get It Together Soon

Jameis Winston has 10 weeks remaining on the schedule to figure things out before the Bucs need to contemplate their next move after his contract expires. By Week 15 Winston will have played 14 games this season and we’ll have a better understanding of where he’s at. 

If he hasn’t gotten it together by then, he never will. If there’s any coach that can get to him, it’s Bruce Arians, and I don’t think enough time has gone by to determine that Winston has fully developed into this new offense just yet. Winston and the Bucs have only played six games this season, and they’re not yet at the halfway point. I believe there’s still time for Winston to be at the best in this system, a system that has worked for quarterbacks such as Andrew Luck, Ben Roethlisberger and Peyton Manning.

We just saw Winston’s worst performance of the year in London where he turned the ball over six times. But just two weeks prior, Winston had a performance that was so good against the Los Angeles Rams with 385 yards and four touchdowns that it won him NFC Offensive Player of the Week honors. It’s never been a question about the talent and whether he can make the throws, it’s been stringing together a good number of games consistently. And I think Arians can get him to that point with some adjustments. Winston studies the game hard, and he knows the mistakes he’s made can be corrected. 

Of course everyone likes to compare how Arians salvaged Carson Palmer out in Arizona. The NFL Research Department brought up the stats of Winston’s first year with Arians and compared it to the stats of Palmer in his first year in 2013, and the data shows that this is right around the time where quarterbacks turn the corner in Arians’ offense. 

According to the NFL Research Department, Palmer’s stats through the first seven weeks were a 3-4 record, 248.7 passing yards per game, 60.5 completion percentage, eight touchdowns and 13 interceptions. Palmer’s stretch over weeks 8-17 were much improved. He recorded a 7-2 record with 281.4 yards per game, 65.7 completion percentage, 16 touchdowns and nine interceptions. It’s a significant uptick in production. 

Bucs QB Jameis Winston
Bucs QB Jameis Winston – Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR

Between the first seven weeks, Winston has a 2-4 record with 295.2 yards per game, a 60 percent completion rate, 12 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. In other words, he has very similar stats to that of Palmer’s first seven weeks in this offense. What he’ll do in weeks 8-17 remains to be seen. 

As bad as his game was in London, Winston has a reputation of bouncing back in the following games after a bad performance, and we’ve seen that as early as this year. Up until the London game, I had him marked as at least deserving a franchise tag at the end of the season. The Bucs need to decide whether to do that, let him walk, or sign him to a long-term deal. 

Does one bad game completely negate any of the positives he’s had this season? It made a dent in that perception, but I don’t think it totally erases what he’s already done. One thing that’s certain, though, is that he doesn’t have anymore mulligans. Winston is on his last straw and by no means can he put up another clunker like he did across the pond. There’s still some time for him to turn the page, but the clock is ticking.

 

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Scott Reynolds is in his 24th year of covering the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as the vice president, publisher and senior Bucs beat writer for PewterReport.com. Author of the popular SR's Fab 5 column on Fridays, Reynolds oversees web development and forges marketing partnerships for PewterReport.com in addition to his editorial duties. A graduate of Kansas State University in 1995, Reynolds spent six years giving back to the community as the defensive line coach for his son's Pop Warner team, the South Pasco Predators. Reynolds can be reached at: [email protected]

64 COMMENTS

  1. Whether he is or not we all know Licht is going to try. His draft picks are falling off little by little. Here’s a list of players not injured or weren’t waived from 4 years worth of draft picks:

    2014 Draft: Mike Evans
    2015 Draft: Winston, Donavan Smith, Marpet
    2016 Draft: Hargreaves, Ryan Smith
    2017 Draft: OJ Howard, Chris Godwin

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    • To the Jameis Winston Haters
      Who don’t know a damn thing about football.

      First 60 games of their NFL Careers:

      Jameis Winston-
      61.4% Cmp% – 16,399yds – 7.7 Y/A – 100 TD – 68 INT – 60 Games

      Troy Aikman-
      60.3% Cmp% – 11,650yds – 6.3 Y/A – 58 TD – 62 INT – 60 Games

      Brett Favre –
      62.6 Cmp% – 14825yds – 6.9Y/A – 98 TD – 66 INT – 61 Games

      Tom Brady –
      61.6% Cmp% – 13,925 – 6.9Y/A – 97 TD- 52 INT – 62 Games

      Where does the Tampa Bay Offense Rank in Scoring Points in the NFL?
      Answer is 4th in the Entire NFL

      Where does the Tampa Bay Defense Rank in Points Allowed in the NFL?
      Answer is 30th in the NFL.

      Every one always wants to Blame Jameis Winston for Everything Wrong with the Bucs.
      1. Since he was drafted in 2015 Pro Football Foxes ranks NFL Offensive Lines. The Bucs O=Line Avg’d 22 including this season.

      2. Where is the Running Game? Marcus Mariota had the 10th best Offensive Line over his 5 years compared to the 22nd OLine for Jameis. Mariota had the 15th best Defense in the NFL in his Career compared to 25th ranked defense over 5 years for Jameis.

      3. Marriott had a Running Gam,e the Bucs gave Jameis a Running game 1 year with the Muscle Hampster and lasts week the leading rusher on the team had 28 yds and it has been bottom of the Barrel there.

      4. And pleases please don’t get me started on Bucs Kickers and How many games they have Blown!

      Despite All of that. Look at Jameis Winston’s Numbers compared to Aikman, Favre, Brady and you can throw in Matt Stafford too who had 109 intercepts at 60 or so games and who still doesn’t have a winning record despite making over $200 Million.

      THE TAMPA BAY FRONT OFFENSE THAT IS GM AND OWNERSHIP HAVE FAILED JAMEIS WINSTON.
      CUT HIM OR TRADE HIM AT YOUR OWN RISK TAMPA BAY…

      AND WATCH HIM GET TO A NON DYSFUNCTIONAL ORGANIZATION AND WIN THE SUPER BOWL JUST LIKE DOUG WILLIAMS, STEVE YOUNG AND TRENT DILFER ALL DID WHEN THEY LEFT THE BUCS…

      IT IS NOT JAMEIS
      ITS THE OLINE, THE PASS DEFENSE, AND THE RUNNING GAME THAT HAVE NOT BEEN ADDRESS PROPERLY TO SUPPORT HIM SINCE HE WAS DRAFTED!

      AND HE IS STILL ON A HALL OF FAME PACE STATISTICALLY.
      HE IS GOING TO BE FINE.

      PART OF ME WANTS TO SEE HIM GET INTO A STABLE ORGANIZATION THAT CAN PUT A DEFENSE ON THE FIELD TO PROTECT THE POINTS HE PUTS UP ON THE SCOREBOARD. IF TAMPA IS REALLY THAT DUMB.
      LET HIM GO.

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      • My comment had nothing to do with this.

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  2. Jameis might not get that long term deal. But he will get an extension from this team. They are gonna..ride him out just like they are doing Licht. Who by the way should have been fired along with Lovie Smith. All these draft picks over the countless losing years. You’d think we would have built a powerhouse with those picks. Not so. If the biggest coaching staff in the NFl can’t get it done then Who?

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  3. Jameis has played like an average QB thus far factoring in his highs like the Rams game and lows like the most recent Panthers game. My issue is that the “QB whisperer” isn’t as hands as he needs to be. Everyone in the world knew we would attempt to force feed Evans after having no catches and what did we do on the FIRST play of the game, throw to Mike Evans lol. I get wanting to get Evans the ball by why not a screen play which is safer or wait until later in the drive to work him in, but no this brilliant staff decided the first play was the right time. They should’ve been in Jameis’ ear ALL week do NOT force Mike the ball, we will design some things for him but continue to hit Godwin, who might I add was open on that play, and continue to take what’s given. We used OJ successfully on 1 screen play and then never used it again. The play where OJ fakes like hes blocking and slips out the backside for a big play has worked at Bama, under Dirk and considering he’s literally been forgotten in this offense would prob work for us again but they don’t even use it. I get OJ doesn’t run good routes and has suspect hands but again this is the handy work of Licht who Arians praised so I don’t want to hear the excuses, get it done. Rojo is the only RB capable of taking one to the house but we don’t play him due to some nonsense about the hot hand. Jameis is definitely to blame, the running has slightly improved but the coaching still leaves a lot to be desired. I see Jameis continually beaten up on 5 and 7 step drops yet I see no screens or underneath passing to offset the OL decencies like most quality OCs would do. We are not the only team without their starting lineman but it sure looks like it on Sundays. They harped on putting players in the best position to succeed and they simply haven’t done it. The problem will always be at the top with this team until he’s gone, his random hits don’t come close to his colossal failures. You can’t succeed when a GM selects Hargreaves over Tunsil, Vita over Derwin, OJ over Dalvin Cook and then the host of other DBs that are to worthless to mention. I remember at the very beginning when Lael Collins dropped in the draft due to that rumor pre draft and said ” a team with OL defencies like us should pounce on the chance to get a 1st round talent in the 5th or 6th round” only to watch us select the likes of Joey Iosefu and Kailin Clay lol. He gambled on a kicker in the second round but wouldn’t take a chance on an impact OL in the later rounds. Signs should never be ignored and most have ignored his flagrant miscues for farrrr too long. Jameis is bad but he’s just part of the problem.

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    • Spot on!

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    • Licht was not going to draft Tunsil to play RT, especially when D Smith had just completed his rookie season at LT and Dotson was still in his prime. Vita Vea was drafted for his position and value at that position over Derwin James. Both are good players, but Vea is probably making a much bigger impact for this team on the DL than Derwin James would have had on this team playing in the secondary (Safety is our least concern in the secondary right now). OJ Howard should have been drafted in the top 10, and analysts were all saying that the Bucs got a steal getting him at 19 in the first round. Our OL was trash (worse than the current one with starters healthy), so Dalvin Cook’s success playing in Tampa likely would have been very limited.

      Say what you want about the later round picks. 5th-7th rounders are always hit and miss, and mostly miss, no matter what team is drafting them. Licht shouldn’t be knocked for drafting players who have an extensive injury history (Beckwith) or who left as FA (Alexander).

      At worst, Licht is an average to below average GM. Lovie Smith brought Licht with him, not the other way around, so firing Licht with Smith after two drafts would have been a waste. Licht’s biggest mistake, in my opinion, was letting Koetter keep Mike Smith after the 2017 season. This team’s defense, at worst, would have been one year closer to having a decent secondary had Licht fired Mike Smith at the end of 2017.

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      • You draft Tunsil and let the best man win between both he and Dotson at RT. Dotson’s “prime” was never anything elite and he was in his 30s so it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that an upgrade was going to be needed sooner or later. OJ Howard was a luxury pick that we haven’t developed and this offense can’t seem to use. Not sure how you can say Derwin wasn’t needed when we just spent a 3rd round pick on a lesser safety that’s starting on a team that starter safeties off the street last year. Vita was a value pick, he is a nose tackle that shouldn’t have been drafted that high. He brings absolutely nothing to the table on passing downs which is why Shaq has 9 sacks and the team has 12, zero of which are from Mr. Vea. He’s fooled you into thinking these were smart moves but the results clearly show he’s bad at finding talent and even worse at finding a competent staff to utilize these reaches. I encourage you to strongly look at Vernon Hargreaves numbers in his last season at Florida when facing NFL talent and find anything that screams draft me at 11. Average GM’s would have an identity after 5 seasons on the job, Lynch has been in SF half the time and they have a QB, DL and wins….shocking I know right. You ignore the trenches for skill positions and you end up like Matt Millen, doping mock drafts in the winter for pay. Licht is absolute garbage and to call him average is an insult to C students around the world.

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        • Derwin James is putting up a killer season this year.

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          • He has the same number of sacks as Vita

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          • Being #1 against the rush and stopping Mccaffery twice, Saquon Barkley, Alvin Kamara, Breida/Coleman, and Todd Gurley is what Vita Vea is paid to do.

            Check. Mission accomplished.

            Derwin James is injury prone and on IR. That guy is overrated.

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          • That stat is a function of the worst passing defense in the nfl for about 3 years straight. Teddy Bridgewater and Kyle Allen look like Kurt Warner reincarnated against us. Goff threw for 500 plus yards against us and was a few bad throws from even more yards. And then we got lucky against Cam and that bum shoulder. The titans will carve us up, Menshew will look great and the Falcons will look like the Super Bowl team and I’ll guarantee it. Career days through the air but then again I guess we can say at least they didn’t run on us as we explain away another loss.

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        • @stl The problem with your point about the stats is that it implies that these teams didn’t attempt to run the ball because throwing was the easier road. This clearly was NOT the case, especially against Carolina

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          • @plopes808 you have to also remember that the Bucs run D was still an unknown commodity plus the Panthers knew that Cam was a shell of his former self so of course they were going to run the ball.

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    • Of all QB’s that have played for at least 4 years, Winston is statistically the worst to play the game in over two decades. I don’t see how you see that as average.

      I guess if you zero in on yards or just TD you can come to that conclusion but not taken as a whole.

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      • We seem to often overlook the fact that Winston was basically in the same offensive system his first 4 years under Koetter as well. That consistency should have had a bigger impact. Not a Mariota fan, but believe the dude’s had a new offensive coordinator every year since he was drafted. Crazy that both were considered “can’t miss” prospects by many analysts.

        While not a fan of his off-field personality, after being a fan since ’76, was really hoping JW was the long-term answer as a franchise QB when he was drafted. Stopped listening to/reading any interviews of his about 2 years ago because it seems clear he either isn’t able/willing to change his mentality and simply repeats the same tired cliches, promises and excuses after every poor game. Re: his leadership, frankly question that now as well. Players follow guys they respect and can depend on. When you’re consistently turning the ball over, at some point even your most loyal teammates have had enough. Hoping for a new start at QB in April.

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  4. In theory, yes, and in practice, no. There is a narrow possibility that he will be salvaged. Odds are that he won’t be.

    BA has a serious challenge to his reputation to deal with now as the “QB Whisperer”. I hope he never has to regret that he came out of retirement for this last challenge or last series of challenges. The main challenge is truly to find a way to turn the fortunes of the Franchise around with or without Winston.

    I make no predictions. I only hope as a fan for the best for Winston and the best for the Buccaneers.
    _____________
    Go Bucs!!!!

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  5. The fact that you are asking this question in his fifth year says all you need to know. He lacks consistency, being clutch, and awareness which are probably the most important traits for a good QB and he severely lacks in all. He has all the physical tools and football IQ in terms of reading a defense but the consistency doesn’t follow. When he shows improvement and seems like he’s starting to get on a roll, he collapses BIG time in one way or another. I’m done making excuses for him and I’m done getting excited when he strings a few good games together just to revert to his old self. Plenty of QBs in last 5 season including this season that have issues with their oline, bad defenses, no running game, or no experience that have or are playing better than Jameis. Yeah I’m sour as hell but I’m sick of this rollercoaster ride. Before the Panthers game I posted on here about being wrong about Jameis and was happy that he was showing improvement blah blah blah, then BOOM he fails us again.

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  6. Winston’s career highlight reel can be done in a, I’d say, 4min video. I love the kid for his fire, but I think, internally, he cant be salvaged. A new offense cant be the reason why you keep throwing that many picks. It’s just his instincts at this point. I hope this isnt a Philip Rivers case where hes going to be around for the long haul and never get in the playoffs.

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    • Sadly his lowlight reel would probably take about 8…. 😉

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      • Lol..20

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  7. No he’s not salvageable. He processes information slowly. He is incapable of getting the ball out quickly because he has a slow delivery, and has to pat the ball before throwing. He still stares down receivers in his fifth year. Ever see him look off DB’s, or safeties? Me neither. Plus he has bad vision. I couldn’t help noticing him squinting to look up at the score board. He wears glasses, but insists he doesn’t need them to play football. One of Scott’s excuses is Cappa, and Dotson were missing. They weren’t missing during our last losses. Did anybody notice our best O linemen Marpet get beat several times also, or Smith, or Jenson? This is on Scott’s boy Licht who’s had six years of high draft choices, plenty of cap money in the beginning, and we still have nothing to show for it. Licht is the biggest problem for the Bucs, but for me Jameis is a close second. Nothing will change while Licht’s in charge, and we’ve seen enough now of Jameis to know he isn’t a franchise QB.

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  8. Haha Trevor you are right about BA, He is the only one that is shocked that Winston thrown this many picks. How about you limit his mistakes by running the freakin ball coach. How about we come out in a heavy sets, line up and just run ball straight at them. Winston is burning you because you tried to get too cute with this junior OC you got running a scheme that a HS team can figure out and you don’t have the guts to admit that you made a mistake. The train can easily be put back on the tracks if you just change your scheme or get another QB its really that simple. Lovie Smith = Out Dated, Dirk Koetter = Stubborn, Bruce Arians = ?

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  9. Scott hit the nail right on the head. He’s in his 5th year and he hasn’t shown any signs of becoming a stable franchise QB. Yeah you can compare Carson to Winston and that’s really cute you guys…but Carson Palmer didn’t have the concrete stats or concrete reputation of leading the league in turnovers for 4 years since he got into the league. The PR staff likes to claim Winston isn’t dumb…if you claim that he’s not doing what he’s being taught to do like discussed on the podcast…what else do you call that? Maybe being kind you can say he just can’t perform under pressure. But I’m gonna call him dumb and he needs to be cut at the end of the season cause he’s just not getting it through his head.

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  10. Jameis is the enigma that will continue to baffle bucfans! The potential issue has doomed a lot of good ball players. Jameis has trouble reading defenses, in fact I think he has genuine vision issues as many have stated. The inconsistency is mind boggling. In the Rams game we didn’t harp on how bad the Offensive line was. Jameis throws 4 tds and we win. All is well and optimistic. But after the losses we talk about how it’s the O-line, it’s the defense, it’s Vea, it’s Hargreaves, it’s Mike… the problem is Jameis! He is and will continue to be erratic/brilliant! We as Bucfans must live with this reality until we don’t! The question the Buccaneers staff and management must ask themselves is, how much of the cap r we willing to spend on Jameis? It just keeps rising but yet we get the same results. If we were talking about re-upping Jameis for 15-20 mill a year I doubt we would have a lot of the Jameis…should he stay or go talk… but the fact that we r hearing numbers upward of 25-30 mil per for 5 years… well then u better make damn sure he is the one because this type of salary at one position means less money at other positions. And I don’t see Jameis as the type of player who can consistently win by himself. He needs more talent around him. This is ultimately the issue with Jameis!

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    • Bucballer, you’re just straddling the fence! Either Winston can Play or he can’t. Bringing $ into the equation is irrelevant for this season. Your comments about his vision issues and his inconsistency being mind boggling suggest that you believe he can’t play and that’s fine, but when you go into Winston taking less than starting QB money to continue as our QB sounds hypocritical.

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  11. PR, you all have been smoking too much snowing bull sh_t from GM and Owners.
    This will happen again after 2 interceptionsand, if they keep him in the game and we are behind.
    Have we not had this same conversation with two past Head Coaches? Same GM, same Owners.
    You all keep drinking the cool aid; I’m done with Winston.

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  12. Regarding Mark’s section, I don’t think it’s really judging him based on 6 games in a new system. His mistakes are the same ones from every other system he’s played in, turnovers based on poor decision making, that’s not tied to any system, that’s just who he is. I think it’s time to move on. Also, bear in mind, I’m an FSU fan for longer than the Bucs and I loved Winston and was ecstatic when we drafted him. I think that young QBs are having tremendous success as rookies or in their second year that it makes no sense to pay an average, at best, QB 25-30mil a year. I mean, Winston is just not worth the money, you can have the same shit production for a fraction of the cost with a rookie and that player will likely improve. I think we already know what we get with Winston, 5-7 wins a season and many moments of head scratching.

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  13. The problem with this conversation is “salvageable” from or to what? Will Winston ever be Brees or Rogers- of course not- that was never his trajectory. If anyone is expecting him to become the model of consistency that is Brees or Brady, that is ridiculous. He is 2nd or 3rd tier QB who will occasionally give you 1st tier performance and occasionally give you journeyman performance. Ask yourself this: how many other QB’s would you rather have? That list probably ends around 10-12 or so. The organization will keep him on because they are not likely to be in a position to draft his replacement at draft slots 7-15. They could bench him and burn it down, but does anybody think Arians wants to go through that?
    The real question here is, can a team win games with Winston? Of course, they can. But the team has to be constructed to compliment his deficiencies. This team is not and I have serious doubts that Jason Licht can acquire the necessary talent to make that happen. The problem with Winston is not necessarily Winston, it is that this team lacks a strong, cohesive organizational direction.

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    • That’s a very good point!

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  14. Unfortunately, I totally agree with Scott Reynolds this time, “There’s another disastrous game on the way before this season is through.” I believe the same thing. Winston’s record for “clean” games was set last year, when he played the last 7 games without a melt down. There are still 10 games to go. So unless he sets a new record of 10 games without a melt down, he is probably done in Tampa – only 10 weeks after Mariotta seems to be done in Tennessee.

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  15. Salvageable? How about just make him serviceable? You can win with a QB who just doesn’t give the other team the game. Jameis will never be that, he has no desire to change that based upon his lack of progression. If you throw the ball away you live to fight another down. But Jameis being Jameis will continue to do whatever the hell he wants, because he cares more about being the superhero than doing what others think is right. Three head coaches and multiple offensive coordinators in 5 years…He kills coaches, period.

    Arians said if he sees this again he’ll be concerned? Umm, do you remember the two pick sixes against SF? What about the interceptions from the week before called back because of penalites? Bad decision after bad decision. If Arians wants to stay in Tampa long term, then he wants the highest draft pick possible next year, which means continuing to play Jameis. He will not change.

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    • I look at this as Arians doing his best to keep supporting his QB until beyond a doubt he cannot do it. I think everyone knows Winston is at the end of the line. There are 10 games left, and Winston has melted down at the longest between games at 7, the last 7 of last season where he did not melt down. This year he made it through 4 games between meltdowns (games 1 and 6). If he lasts 10 more without any more melt downs, he probably will get one more year. The thing is, no one on this board and probably in the Bucs locker room down in their hearts thinks he can do it

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  16. The best predictor of future performance is past performance. I’m not sure why anyone would believe things are going to change for Jameis. This off-season he was using the STRIVR virtual reality software to help improve his decision making and reading the defenses. It has not translated onto the field, and it never will. Jameis and Marcus Mariota will have very nice, very lucrative careers as NFL backups. That is what they are and there is no shame in that. I think it was Trevor Sikkema said this morning on WDAE is that Jameis cannot put together three or four strong games and his point is that in the playoffs you need a QB that can do that.

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    • Bill Belichick was fired after one day as the NY Jets head coach. He was also fired by Cleveland. Lowly laughingstock New England hired him after those dismissals.

      Past performance does NOT guarantee future results.

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    • I would note the last 7 games of last season, he played fairly well. That is more than the 3 or 4 WDAE claim as his maximum. Unfortunately however, I do agree it seems unlikely he will make it the last 10 games of 2019 without a repeat performance. His record of clean play is at 7 games, and he is not showing signs of breaking it.

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  17. Absolutely perfectly said Stlbucsfan. The second I heard that “I need to get Evans the ball more” comment by Jameis, I kneeewww what was coming. So if I knew what was coming, obviously the DC of the Panthers knew what was coming. JW was gonna force Evans the ball open or covered over and over and over again! Meanwhile Godwin continually roasted his DB play after play after play. He’s the only Buc that deserved 17 targets. If Evans got the ball ONLY when open, he should have seen, at best, 7 or 8 targets. Forcing the ball to any one player is absolutely brain dead losing football. all the winning teams, and winning QB’s don’t ever force the ball to anyone. Patriots, Chiefs, Saints, Rams, Eagles. You go into a game with the intent on forcing one player the ball against an elite defense, you will lose every time. If anyone should be force fed the ball it’s Godwin because he’s always friggen open. He’s a beast and gets the opponents 3rd best corner. He’s the one that should be fed over and over and over again. Not Evans. Evans NEVER has the best CB matchup. Take what the defense gives you. If he hasn’t learned to take what the defense gives him by now, he never will. JW is the type of QB that needs to be on a team with a great defense, and great OLine. E CANNOT be the QB of a team with little to zero talent around him. The second he needs to put a team on his back and play Superman, he’s toast. He’s proven it over and over and over again. His career stats in these situations show it. He’s something like 3-30 in his career when the opponent scores 24+ points, and he’s something like 18-5 when the opponent scores less than 24 points. That’s all the evidence you need that he cannot win games by himself. It’s time to move on. Tank and hope to get a top 5 pick to get a better QB

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    • Dave is the guy who wrote a page long article last year about how wrong I was about getting rid of Jameis Winston the Bust

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  18. This question is completely irrelevant. The question is this – Can Jameis Winston will a Superbowl? It’s that simple. I will answer it for you this quickly – No, he cannot, and he will not as a starter for any other team. You see, I want a Superbowl win. That should be the mentality. The league is a QB driven league and he can’t compete in it for 20 weeks consistently to get me a Superbowl win. That’s my answer and that’s why it’s time to move on.

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  19. Jameis has to take a long look at himself in the mirror and ask himself how much money he is willing to lose trying to be a superhero for this team. Batman got cut for a good reason. Jameis just needs to stop putting this team on his shoulders and force them to put him on their shoulders.

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  20. That for sure is one of his many problems.
    I’m was still living in Tallahassee and his first Spring practices; nothing has changed. I thought he might under Arians, but nope it’s in Winstons DNA to do what he is doing. He really is uncoachable, he will always go back to what his instincts tells him to do. He is never going to grow up when it comes to his football mentality. He can still play football, but not as a starting quarterback. Just my opinion and I have been a Winston fan since drafting him. Three previous head coaches have seen what is still Winston’s issue; it’s not going to change.

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  21. Captain Sly it’s ALWAYS about the money! R u kidding me. All the QBs that make in excess of 21 mil have previous playoff experience. There’s no sitting on any fence. It’s called being a fan. I put my money where my mouth is by spending thousands of dollars on 30 years of season tickets! Jameis at a lower salary is easier to stomach than Jameis at 27-30 mil. Jameis is not worth 27-30 mil! The Bucs can’t continue to give max salaries to average players. See QB, Center, LT… u soon find yourself in cap hell… and that is where we will find ourselves giving Jameis a max contract! It’s always about the money… that’s why u play the game!

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  22. All starting QBs making over 20 million per year have playoff experience!

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  23. What you see – in four and a half years as a Buc, and his last year as a Nole – is precisely what we’ll ever get out of this guy.

    He is OK as a low paid backup to come in and give you a (maybe) 50-50 shot at winning one or a couple of games until the real QB heals up, or your season goes down the toilet .. whatever the case may be.

    There is no freaking way that Winston is worth what he’s being paid NOW on his fifth year option – and much more so on a normal second contract for a starting quarterback in the NFL.

    As much as a clusterfuck the Winston draft was from Day 1 – and it always was – the even bigger clusterfuck is the current Bucs ownership, consisting of the Baby Glazers who inherited and/or learned nothing from their father on how to run a successful NGL franchise … and the neverending string of very bad, no good, horrible decisions they’ve been depositing like dogshit on the carpet ever since the old man suffered his stroke, including the two losingest GMs we’ve ever had.

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  24. In my survey with people I run into it’s 15 to one And there was a couple to three people told me they don’t even watch the Bucs anymore because of Jameis Winston.Outside of the holdovers from pewter he has no support

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  25. Only way he should get resigned is if it’s for less than $10 million. Cause that’s what he’s worth…and that’s being generous. Can spend the majority of our cap on such crappy play. Gotta sign Shaq, if JPP comes back and is anything like he was, resign him, maybe go after star CB, LT or maybe even DL since our pass rush is so weak. But it shouldn’t be spent on Jameis Winston!

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  26. I can think of only one example of a qb who didn’t mature until late in his fifth season, Terry Bradshaw. I was living in Pittsburgh at the time. Bradshaw never has more touchdowns than interceptions until his 6th year in the league. Of course it was a different game then, but it is worth mentioning. He was benched three or four times in the first five years and never had a season where he completed more than 57% of his passes. There are many differences, of course, but I recall how many fans had given up on him. At the end of his fifth year, Bradshaw had 48 touchdowns and 81 interceptions. He is in the Hall of Fame.

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  27. Yes

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  28. I believe the Bucs O’line leads the league in giving up the most sacks so far this season tied with the Titans at 25. I would think it would be very difficult to find success Without proper protection regardless of who the QB is.

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  29. So Evans should have come back for the ball on the 1st throw. But what this ignores is that he just wasn’t open at all and the best scenario on coming back for the ball was an incompletion but also a 50/50 shot the ball bounces in the air and the 2 panther defenders having a good shot at a tipped ball pick.

    The excuses really have to stop. But Head Coaches do play the good cop/bad cop so as to not bring too much criticism on their players so what they do is spread the criticism around to other players as well. Its a delicate tightrope walk for sure.

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  30. I don’t believe Winston will ever make it and I will tell you why. Many times throughout this article and many of the comments they say Winston has the tools and the IQ and yet can not be consistent. I disagree with the football IQ, I don’t believe Winston can read defenses nearly fast enough. Let me tell you why, three of the top quarterbacks in the league, Brady, Breeze, and Rogers have a average release of less then 2 seconds. They achieve this by reading the defenses as they react to motion at the line and in the majority of their passes they know where they are going before the ball is snapped. That is how they are so quick, Winston has never been able to do this and never will he does not have that kind of football IQ. That is why he has to hold the ball so long and gets sacked so often, I know many blame the O line and I know it is not the best in the league but believe me any of the three for mentioned QB’s above would win games with our current line.

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  31. Just give it up, the guy should be done here in Tampa. I have 0 faith that Winston will turn it around here in Tampa. Maybe somewhere else in the future but I will not take another year of jameis after this season

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  32. nope and the top qb’s will be taken by miami and cincinatti. so we are officially screwed

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  33. NO!!!!!!!!

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  34. Hey Captain. Point taken. So r u saying that the game Winston threw 4 touchdowns… those four touchdowns were not a result of the offensive line blocking long enough for Winston to deliver the TD, but rather Winston’s pure superior athletic ability?

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  35. evans should of knocked the ball down??? maybe hes tired of being a part time cornerback for jameiss lack of accuracy

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  36. I don’t need to read Pewter Report’s rehash of “War and Peace” to know the answer to that one.

    Jameis keeps doing the same things and expects different outcomes. This means he is either crazy or incapable of learning through his mistakes. I don’t think he will change. He has to be the star and he refuses to think of the team. The good Qbs in the NFL play the percentages rather than throwing up “Hope to God” shots.

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  37. Really thought we would get At least an average defense and average O line play this year. Then we could say finally after 16 games can he be the guy. I knew o line was thin and Dor was declining. I said in Pretoria season this season will ride on a o line not Winston. Still think that’s the case. If he still floundered with decent o line and defense it would be easy to say he needs to go. Unfortunately it’s been a shit show. That was the most duress I’ve seen a QB under in long time in London. Not to say he didn’t make it worse panicking and doing crazy shit as usual. So at end of season unless things dramatically improve those areas we will be judging him from an impossible to flourish and win situation.
    The defense (Secondary) is going to give up 35 or more points every game.

    That and O line play is a recipe for failure for any QB. For Winston and Superman persona it’s pretty much game over.

    So to answer the question is he salvageable here in Tampa under current conditions? I have to say no. Could he play fine on team with average to good defense and O line and better play calling suited to his strengths more? I think answer is yes and if they cut him we will find out just like we did with Doug Williams, Testaverde,etc.

    I still think the franchise rage is most likely scenario unless he has another game like London then all bets are off.

    Agree with other poster, in that I hope it’s not Phillip Rivers 2.0. Does enough to keep around decade or more but never wins playoff game.

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  38. As always, my boy Trevor gets it. It doesn’t matter at this point. Bottom line is that he is not worth big money. This team needs more talent and more development in most areas, especially the trenches. Unless we suddenly have a top 5 QB, this team isn’t going to win big. And guess what? Winston will never be a top 5 QB. Even if he cracks the top 10, he won’t be enough with this team, and it’s unlikely he will. He is likely to remain an average QB, sitting somewhere between 10 and 20. Sure, he has top 10 upside, but on any given week he becomes bottom 10. No good. We need a reboot. Draft and develop the trenches! Then find a serviceable QB that won’t turn the ball over. Look at the Panthers, Jaguars, Colts, Vikings, Saints. All average QBs playing good enough to win and avoiding game losing turnovers

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  39. The real question is what are we salvaging? Mediocrity and inconsistency? No thanks. Jameis has had opportunities but he simply can’t even correct the simple things like getting rid of the ball. Game over. Dirk and BA have drilled into him this simple fact: you can single-handedly put your team behind the 8-ball.

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  40. Someone did bring up a good point. The only non Jameis related blame I can give is that this is easily the worst line protecting Jameis since he’s been in the league. I mean the sacks, QB hits, and QB hurries are at a ridiculous rate right now. The very few games where Jameis was protected( Rams, Panthers 1st game) Jameis protected the ball and played great and we won. But just listen to this friggen stat. Jameis is on pace for a 16 game total of 67 sacks and 136 QB hits. That’s absolutely friggen absurd. I know he holds the ball a little too long at times. But that can’t all be him. I mean most of that is either poor line play, Arians scheme of 7 step drops to try and throw deep early and often, or both. You can’t do 5 or 7 step drops and try throwing deep when your OLine can’t protect a doorway. Like maybe it’s time to start doing some West coast things. 3 step drops throwing slants to Godwin. Or quick hitters to Howard, letting him get YAC. Or motioning out Jones and letting him get some YAC. Or bubble screens to Evans, letting him get a head of steam. Like the one clear strength of this team is talented pass catchers. Why not throw quick slants and bubble screens and let them make defenders miss in space. Obviously 5 and 7 step drops trying to get receivers downfield doesn’t work with this line. We have 2 every game matchup nightmares in Godwin and Howard. Godwin against a slot CB and Howard against a LB. there’s no way we shouldn’t be able to dictate to the defense what we want to do. I know Winston CANNOT turn the ball over 7 times, but it’s not all on him. Horrible play designs, horrible protection, non existent running game, and dead last ranked pass defense doesn’t exactly help him any. This team is far more screwed outside Jameis. Time to re-evaluate BL playcalling. Because it’s clearly not working with the state of the OLine. It’s time for BA to take over playcalling and fix that problem. And GET HOWARD the ball. Jesus are you kidding me man. No LB in the league can cover him. NONE! Absolutely inexcusable how little he’s used as a pass catcher.

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  41. As bad as the Interceptions look, with Cappa and Dotson out of the game Winston didn’t stand a chance back there. Every snap my Heart started racing seeing how quickly the pocket collapsed. I mean 2 backup lineman even fooled McCoy into thinking he actually was good enough to get those sacks. The problem is Winston is just as capable of throwing a record breaking game as he is a miserable game and so much of it has to do with Oline play. It is intriguing to think about the possibilities of drafting a QB this year and one of the Top 3 or 4 guys could be Boom or Bust but if we don’t find a replacement for Dotson and possibly Smith and bring in quality Oline depth, it will just be the same old story all over again. I still believe this team can win any game they show up to, so for me 6-4 or 10-0 is completely as possible as the flip side, but Starting with the 2020 Draft, we have to Draft Oline early and often. I still believe Winston can be everything we need him to be if he wasn’t constantly running for his life, because even when he isn’t, he has it in his head that he might need to, and no QB can succeed consistently with that in their head. If the Staff feels they need to move on and Draft another 1st Round QB next year then maybe that’s what we need, but they better spend the rest of the Draft on every Olineman possible as well as bringing in a Veteran CB, otherwise nothing will change At QB but the name on the jersey.

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  42. The last five years of tape says no. How many of today’s true franchise QBs took six years for the light to go on? Let’s make a list…

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  43. Who in their sane mind thinks he’s still salvageable? Really?!?!?

    Winston has the mind for football but he lacks the decision making ability. CLEARLY. He’s even shown this off the field as well.

    Its time to move on. I’ve heard every excuse in the book for Winston. Offensive line, running game, defense, blah blah blah blah… None of it matters. The one thing that is consistent here is Winston and he’s just not that good. Sure, he’ll have an amazing game here and there but who actually TRUSTS this guy?

    Long time Seminole here too. I defended Winston for a LONG time. But after the Uber incident and his performance last season, I’m done. This is a wasted season watching what is already known. HE’S JUST NOT THAT GOOD.

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