JTS was viewed as a high valued project as he was green and lacked experience even in the collegiate levels. Licht drafted him to develop slowly and that was the plan until the team was forced to play JTS a lot sooner than they anticipated.
Rick Stroud
"Bucs Joe Tryon-Shoyinka will start in place of Jason Pierre-Paul. Reason why they took an OLB with their first pick. “We got lucky with that one,” Arians said. “He’s a pretty damn good one, too…He’ll make some mistakes but he’s going to make some plays, too.”
maybe "coach speak" with an assist from "local reporter speak"
JPP played with a rotator cuff injury. so known before the draft, as I recall
The plan was for JTS to develop slowly which is why Shaq had an outstanding 2021 campaign with 10 sacks and 2 fumble recoveries, and JPP managed to start 12 games with 2.5 sacks in 2021.
But by 2022 and 2023 things went sideways where JTS was forced to start prematurely and led to him being a bust iMVHO.
sort of overrated him as the general manager he is today
Yes i totally get your point. I do. and it is an interesting topic.
I am just suggesting a more realistic analysis is probably something more like comparing the Bucs and the Rams based on the talent acquired. Emphasis on "based on the talent acquired." I use the Rams because they are in a completely different place in 2026 than the Bucs even though their last Super Bowl was next to the Bucs. and alos becaue les Snead is pretty damn good.
So, just like you would compare to dissimilar assets by adjustments, an analysis of the Rams versus the Bucs for talent acquired would have to FIRST note the huge disparity in coaching and maybe secondly the impact of the the QB. Both make lesser players better. Another might be the owner spending philosphy. I dont know much about the Rams but we have been watching the Bucs focus on their cap/budget first, talent second.
So anyways, the question is would the Rams, for example, swap their player for the correspond Buc player in a cost-free swap, just player for player
1) the Rams has a very good RB who is an UFA. we used a 4th round pick for a good RB too, but maybe less a one man backfield. Probably NO
2) the Rams certainly hit on Puka, but the Bucs alos have a good receiving core even if different than the Rams. Probably NO but note that the Rams receiing core inclusdes a big FA DEvante Adams
4) both teams have 4th round TEs, the Rams had to get their guy in free agency. A wash, but maybe Otton? Homegrown at least
5) Licht's pride/joy is the line and we have a futre HOFer in Wirfs, they have (I think) and UFA at LT? Wirfs 100% and probably Goedeke over the rams RG?
6) someone else would have to say how the interior lines compare. (Thoughts, anyone? I think the Rams interior is very good?)
If you compare them side by side, you then have to looks at draft capital used, but again that is clouded a bit because of the positive mpact of ams coach and QB on any player
My guess is that at least through 2025 (ie applying the POTENTIAL of someone like Bain) the defensive disparity is probably pretty stark. Maybe I will do that later
Maybe an easier way even to look at that critique of Licht above is just to ask:
IF both teams are equally healthy all season and we had 2020 Brady (key: 2020) and maybe Arians or even Coen in 2026, would the Bucs OFFENSE be competitive with the Rams current offense? Of course, right? Worse? not really. Better, hmm not sure.
If you just say they are basically the same then what resources were required to assemble the two units?
Maybe an easier way even to look at that critique of Licht above is just to ask:
IF both teams are equally healthy all season and we had 2020 Brady (key: 2020) and maybe Arians or even Coen in 2026, would the Bucs OFFENSE be competitive with the Rams current offense? Of course, right? Worse? not really. Better, hmm not sure.
If you just say they are basically the same then what resources were required to assemble the two units?
2020 supporting weapons - HOF WR (Evans), HOF WR if wasn't a menace (AB), Ring of Honor guy (Godwin), one of the mount Rushmore of TE all time (Gronk), former 4th overall pick top drat pick at RB (Fournette)
2025 Rams supporting weapons - one of the best WR in the game (Puka) - 1700 yards and 10 TDs last year, HOF WR (Adams) with 14 TDs last year, perennial 1,000 yard rusher (Kyren Williams), bunch of "JAGS" at TE, depth WR
2026 Bucs supporting weapons -
- Chris Godwin (not the perennial 1,000 yard guy but rather one who hasn't played more than half a season in the last 2 years due to injury) entering age 30 season
- Emeka Egbuka who disappeared after first half dominance. Still a first round pedigree
- Jalen McMillan - who has had injury issues his first 2 seasons but has shown flashes of potential
- Bucky Irving - dude bursted onto the scenes his rookie year but injury aside was pedestrian last year. Does he bounce back to rookie form or was that a fluke?
- Cade Otton - maybe a top 20 tight end arguably better than whoever Rams have but certainly not depth wise at position
the 2026 bucs supporting cast can only be described as "Hope"
we hope Bucky gets back to rookie year, we hope Godwin is back to old self post injuries, we hope Egbuka is the guy he was first half of season, we hope McMillian can stay healthy, we hope Otton can cut down on INTs (he had 2 last year)
Having a dominate QB like Brady or Stafford will mask issues but both of them also had better supporting cast. Having a better play caller also helps. Coen didnt have the injuries across the offensive line that the Bucs had in 2025 and also had a full year of Mike Evans who up until last year was still performing at a high level.
The Rams are a much more talented team than the Bucs if that is what you are getting at but i also know FireLicht had tried to make that argument before
to me, Rams not winning the Superbowl this year would be a disappointment. You only could have said that about the dynasties in NE and KC over the last 2 decades.
"Bucs Joe Tryon-Shoyinka will start in place of Jason Pierre-Paul. Reason why they took an OLB with their first pick. “We got lucky with that one,” Arians said. “He’s a pretty damn good one, too…He’ll make some mistakes but he’s going to make some plays, too.”
The player I reached on I think is good.
Bucky Irving - dude bursted onto the scenes his rookie year but injury aside was pedestrian last year. Does he bounce back to rookie form or was that a fluke?
I'm gonna be insufferable this year when Bucky kills it again
"Bucs Joe Tryon-Shoyinka will start in place of Jason Pierre-Paul. Reason why they took an OLB with their first pick. “We got lucky with that one,” Arians said. “He’s a pretty damn good one, too…He’ll make some mistakes but he’s going to make some plays, too.”
The player I reached on I think is good.
Yup. Coach speak continues to confound.
"Bucs Joe Tryon-Shoyinka will start in place of Jason Pierre-Paul. Reason why they took an OLB with their first pick. “We got lucky with that one,” Arians said. “He’s a pretty damn good one, too…He’ll make some mistakes but he’s going to make some plays, too.”
The player I reached on I think is good.
Yup. Coach speak continues to confound.
"decipher"
splat!
"Bucs Joe Tryon-Shoyinka will start in place of Jason Pierre-Paul. Reason why they took an OLB with their first pick. “We got lucky with that one,” Arians said. “He’s a pretty damn good one, too…He’ll make some mistakes but he’s going to make some plays, too.”
The player I reached on I think is good.
he was not a developmental guy. He was someone they wanted to be able to plug in that season if either of the 90% rep guys (Barrett/JPP) went down.
that is a terrible way to draft but also part of "run it back"
"Bucs Joe Tryon-Shoyinka will start in place of Jason Pierre-Paul. Reason why they took an OLB with their first pick. “We got lucky with that one,” Arians said. “He’s a pretty damn good one, too…He’ll make some mistakes but he’s going to make some plays, too.”
The player I reached on I think is good.
he was not a developmental guy. He was someone they wanted to be able to plug in that season if either of the 90% rep guys (Barrett/JPP) went down.
that is a terrible way to draft but also part of "run it back"
Not true as Scott Reynolds reported at the time that because of COVID and how little production JTS had at the collegiate level they wanted JTS to develop due to his raw upside, and that is why they drafted him as he was very young too. Normally Licht drafts players with PRODUCTION as well as talent but JTS was an exception.
Also there were other edge defenders in the draft that were more plug and play than JTS in the 2021 draft.
It could be argued the Bucs panicked when Rooseau and Owen went before them. But they also passed on the other edge rushers to select JTS. Then they went and drafted Trask and there will still other edge defenders on the board too.
"Bucs Joe Tryon-Shoyinka will start in place of Jason Pierre-Paul. Reason why they took an OLB with their first pick. “We got lucky with that one,” Arians said. “He’s a pretty damn good one, too…He’ll make some mistakes but he’s going to make some plays, too.”
The player I reached on I think is good.
he was not a developmental guy. He was someone they wanted to be able to plug in that season if either of the 90% rep guys (Barrett/JPP) went down.
that is a terrible way to draft but also part of "run it back"
Not true as Scott Reynolds reported at the time that because of COVID and how little production JTS had at the collegiate level they wanted JTS to develop due to his raw upside, and that is why they drafted him as he was very young too. Normally Licht drafts players with PRODUCTION as well as talent but JTS was an exception.
Also there were other edge defenders in the draft that were more plug and play than JTS in the 2021 draft.
It could be argued the Bucs panicked when Rooseau and Owen went before them. But they also passed on the other edge rushers to select JTS. Then they went and drafted Trask and there will still other edge defenders on the board too.
Correct. They drafted a guy they planned to barely play.
I don't fault the pick as much as others because having edge depth isn't bad... It's just that JTS showed NOTHING in college. Licht for some reason is obsessed with UDub.
Again
Project edge
Backup QB
Backup center (but not interested in Creed I guess)
Gadget player
Top 4 picks when you're trying to run it back.
And there were plenty of better picks available and options to trade up or back.
Licht has drafted poorly since we won the chip. That's a fact.
This year's draft was better but he was gifted some picks yet again and still reached for a LB that cannot cover.
Drafted a guy they planned to barely play?
so they were trying to win a second Super Bowl with Anthony Nelson as the back up? Lol
a player can have upside they hope to develop and still be the immediate plan and that's what the stats show. His first game he plays almost half the defense snaps including a play or two at nickel lmao. Crazy Bowles blitz
Drafted a guy they planned to barely play?
so they were trying to win a second Super Bowl with Anthony Nelson as the back up? Lol
a player can have upside they hope to develop and still be the immediate plan and that's what the stats show. His first game he plays almost half the defense snaps including a play or two at nickel lmao. Crazy Bowles blitz
The 2021 draft is clearly understood to be a draft where the Bucs were just plugging holes in terms of depth and did not really make an attempt to nab players that could push for starting time as they were running it back with their 2020 starting roster intact. The reason why Bucs fans are disappointed with the 2021 NFL draft was because the Bucs were more interested in plugging holes for depth/ST and not looking for potential upside with starters.
JTS was just a project when you have three guys in front of him on the depth chart (Nelson, Shaq and JPP). Throw in Cam Gill too as his last season was the 2021 Bucs and he had 1.5 sacks. Gill might be back in the league in 2026 while JTS has issues.
Trask selection for life after Brady but how did that selection help the 2021 Bucs?
Hainsey was viewed as a backup center/guard.
Darden, Britt, and Wilcox and Stuart were all drafted for special teams play and depth.
The 2021 draft only had JTS and Trask as upside to be "starter" potential but neither one was ready year 1 to contribute and were clearly projects. Taking with your first two picks projects when you are trying to repeat as SB champs was a huge gamble and Licht lost big time. A WR or CB with those picks would have made the difference for the Bucs to move deeper into the 2021 playoffs.
Also the Bucs over drafted players like Trask and Darden by a full round. Bucs put on their blinders and were looking at depth.
Most NFL teams look at guys they can think start at some point and act as depth for the time being. But that is not what Licht did and that is why 2021 draft is really bad for Licht. Hainsey ended up being a spot starter but I doubt they anticipated Jenkins issue with his knee or Marpet retiring.
