2022 - No Pick
I think it's fair to count Logan Hall here. While he wasn't technically a first round pick, he was their first pick in the draft. They traded out of the 27th spot with Jacksonville, with George Karlaftis on the board. That's a clear miss.
And Devin Lloyd. Both would be great picks. But nah let's take a tweener DT/DE that played upright and didn't produce.
Licht fucked this one up bigly
i mean if we are being honest with ourselves, Licht has missed on more first round picks then hit
2014 - Evans - Home Run
2015 - Winston - Miss
2016 - Hargreaves - Disastrous
2017 - Howard - Disastrous
2018 - Vea - Home Run
2019 - White - Miss
2020 - Wirfs - Home Run
2021 - JTR - Disastrous
2022 - No Pick
2023 - Kancey - would suggest trending towards Miss but TBD
2024 - Barton - TBD
2025 - Edbuka - TBD
2026 - Bain Jr - TBD
You can add Winston to disasterous since he whiffed on the first overall pick and didn't trade out.
JTR is a miss, not disastrous. He sucks but it's a late first.
White is borderline disasterous because we passed on Josh Allen. I'm fine with "miss" because he was critical during the super bowl run.
2022 - No Pick
I think it's fair to count Logan Hall here. While he wasn't technically a first round pick, he was their first pick in the draft. They traded out of the 27th spot with Jacksonville, with George Karlaftis on the board. That's a clear miss.
And Devin Lloyd. Both would be great picks. But nah let's take a tweener DT/DE that played upright and didn't produce.
Licht fucked this one up bigly
Think of it this way: if you supported Brady's return in 2022 (most did, I think?) then its a little "having it both ways to criticize" the Bucs for trading back and then getting Hall to PLAY DT (they were linked to a DT need because of Suh leaving, I think?) and for not taking an LB like Lloyd when they had White and LVD.
Once Brady comes back they are all in on "win now" and basically drafting for guys who could play or be the first back up.
But even if you choose to ignore the Brady impact, they used the trade back to get Goedeke, I thought?
I think they also ended up taking Otton as depth for Brate, needed and used depth that season as it turned out. A starting RB ("RB1 for wk 14) for Ronald Jones and the current starting CB (although not sure hes that great)
So, not sure the 2022 draft in context of the circumstances is as bad as some might feel. Maybe.
2022 - No Pick
I think it's fair to count Logan Hall here. While he wasn't technically a first round pick, he was their first pick in the draft. They traded out of the 27th spot with Jacksonville, with George Karlaftis on the board. That's a clear miss.
And Devin Lloyd. Both would be great picks. But nah let's take a tweener DT/DE that played upright and didn't produce.
Licht fucked this one up bigly
Think of it this way: if you supported Brady's return in 2022 (most did, I think?) then its a little "having it both ways to criticize" the Bucs for trading back and then getting Hall to PLAY DT (they were linked to a DT need because of Suh leaving, I think?) and for not taking an LB like Lloyd when they had White and LVD.
Once Brady comes back they are all in on "win now" and basically drafting for guys who could play or be the first back up.
But even if you choose to ignore the Brady impact, they used the trade back to get Goedeke, I thought?
I think they also ended up taking Otton as depth for Brate, needed and used depth that season as it turned out. A starting RB ("RB1 for wk 14) for Ronald Jones and the current starting CB (although not sure hes that great)
So, not sure the 2022 draft in context of the circumstances is as bad as some might feel. Maybe.
He had is "win now" draft opportunity the year prior and he took a project end and a back up QB in rounds 1&2.
Occam's razor is that he simply did not evaluate Hall properly.
he simply did not evaluate Hall properly.
They didn't really pick Hall though they picked TRADE DOWN and identified Hall as one of four they'd take. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement lol
And JTS is a really bad reach but taken to be also the best play now option if JPP goes down.
anyway I get the point and Licht is 100% owner of all picks but I think the reality is a little more nuanced
he simply did not evaluate Hall properly.
They didn't really pick Hall though they picked TRADE DOWN and identified Hall as one of four they'd take. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement lol
And JTS is a really bad reach but taken to be also the best play now option if JPP goes down.
anyway I get the point and Licht is 100% owner of all picks but I think the reality is a little more nuanced
He tried to big brain it and failed just like with Aguayo.
He's had brilliant moments and tarded moments.
In the end, my frustration is that he was high on his own supply after the SB
he simply did not evaluate Hall properly.
They didn't really pick Hall though they picked TRADE DOWN and identified Hall as one of four they'd take. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement lol
And JTS is a really bad reach but taken to be also the best play now option if JPP goes down.
anyway I get the point and Licht is 100% owner of all picks but I think the reality is a little more nuanced
He tried to big brain it and failed just like with Aguayo.
He's had brilliant moments and tarded moments.
In the end, my frustration is that he was high on his own supply after the SB
I get that.
interested to see what happens from here.
he simply did not evaluate Hall properly.
They didn't really pick Hall though they picked TRADE DOWN and identified Hall as one of four they'd take. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement lol
And JTS is a really bad reach but taken to be also the best play now option if JPP goes down.
anyway I get the point and Licht is 100% owner of all picks but I think the reality is a little more nuanced
JTS was viewed as a high valued project as he was green and lacked experience even in the collegiate levels. Licht drafted him to develop slowly and that was the plan until the team was forced to play JTS a lot sooner than they anticipated.
Shaq was lost for the 2022 season due to Achilles injury, and he never fully recovered but he still produced in 2023 but by then the team moved on for 2024 and Shaq had signed a new contract post SB. JTS in his second season was forced to play more and then the Bucs compounded that issue by forcing JTS as the default starter in 2024 with not much of a challenge of competition to push him to be better.
Had the Bucs stuck to the original plan to slowly develop JTS he might have become a competent starter. Ryan Smith took that path and to an extent McCollum.
JTS was viewed as a high valued project as he was green and lacked experience even in the collegiate levels. Licht drafted him to develop slowly and that was the plan until the team was forced to play JTS a lot sooner than they anticipated.
Rick Stroud
"Bucs Joe Tryon-Shoyinka will start in place of Jason Pierre-Paul. Reason why they took an OLB with their first pick. “We got lucky with that one,” Arians said. “He’s a pretty damn good one, too…He’ll make some mistakes but he’s going to make some plays, too.”
maybe "coach speak" with an assist from "local reporter speak"
JPP played with a rotator cuff injury. so known before the draft, as I recall
JTS was viewed as a high valued project as he was green and lacked experience even in the collegiate levels. Licht drafted him to develop slowly and that was the plan until the team was forced to play JTS a lot sooner than they anticipated.
Rick Stroud
"Bucs Joe Tryon-Shoyinka will start in place of Jason Pierre-Paul. Reason why they took an OLB with their first pick. “We got lucky with that one,” Arians said. “He’s a pretty damn good one, too…He’ll make some mistakes but he’s going to make some plays, too.”
maybe "coach speak" with an assist from "local reporter speak"
JPP played with a rotator cuff injury. so known before the draft, as I recall
The NYT
"When the Bucs drafted Tryon-Shoyinka, it made sense that having a talented young pass rusher would allow them to rest Pierre-Paul and fellow starter Shaq Barrett more often. Neither comes off the field much, and in last year’s opener, Pierre-Paul played 65 of 68 defensive snaps, Barrett 60 of 68. That’s 11 plays off between them, with the third OLB, Anthony Nelson, getting three that day. Such overwork beyond positional norms can make veteran players more vulnerable to injuries."
JTS played something like 20 snaps on defense (and more on ST) that first game of the 2021 season. They were never going to bring him along slowly. They were trying to be able to rest the other two and get him involved immediately in many ways
JTS was viewed as a high valued project as he was green and lacked experience even in the collegiate levels. Licht drafted him to develop slowly and that was the plan until the team was forced to play JTS a lot sooner than they anticipated.
Rick Stroud
"Bucs Joe Tryon-Shoyinka will start in place of Jason Pierre-Paul. Reason why they took an OLB with their first pick. “We got lucky with that one,” Arians said. “He’s a pretty damn good one, too…He’ll make some mistakes but he’s going to make some plays, too.”
maybe "coach speak" with an assist from "local reporter speak"
JPP played with a rotator cuff injury. so known before the draft, as I recall
The NYT
"When the Bucs drafted Tryon-Shoyinka, it made sense that having a talented young pass rusher would allow them to rest Pierre-Paul and fellow starter Shaq Barrett more often. Neither comes off the field much, and in last year’s opener, Pierre-Paul played 65 of 68 defensive snaps, Barrett 60 of 68. That’s 11 plays off between them, with the third OLB, Anthony Nelson, getting three that day. Such overwork beyond positional norms can make veteran players more vulnerable to injuries."
JTS played something like 20 snaps on defense (and more on ST) that first game of the 2021 season. They were never going to bring him along slowly. They were trying to be able to rest the other two and get him involved immediately in many ways
well he missed. a bad pick
could have had Landon Dickerson. Heck, another great pick by Eagles in the next round was DT Milton Williams. Creed Humphrey went right before Trask.
Joseph Ossai went in early third would have been better..
we can always play a game of what if and no issue with Licht trying to bulk up the pass rush but it turned out to be a failure, no?
that's what we are judging him on?
if he is going to get credit for the slam dunk no brainers such as Evans and Wirfs, then we gotta do the same when he unfortunately misses on Winston and JTR.