Grizz's play calling made Canales look like McVay.
Granted, it's tough to call anything when the interior line is immediately beat every play but the offense was so vanilla it didn't really matter.
The fucking 6 yard out route to the long side of the field with 10-15 air yards was driving me insane
The OC gave the QB quite a few plays to make, but he didn't.
Wut
Sure, I can put it another way: the QB missed receivers that were schemed open. The QB made bad reads independent of the OC. The QB made bad throws independent of the OC. The QB’s drop in the play isn’t because of the OC.
Baker played at that level the first 9 games because no one had anything on Grizzard and how he would call games. Once the gameplan was out there
It doesn’t take NFL DC’s nine games to catch on to an offense as bad as you are purporting the Bucs offensive scheme to be. Those offenses don’t hang 30+ points on the Seahawks and 49ers defensive coaching staff and players.
You act like Grizzard was Byron Leftwich. If he was, he wouldn’t have a job right now - like Leftwich didn’t have a job for years.
I think the 2023 Canales version is probably the "real" Baker Mayfield. I think Coen was that good of an OC and I suspect he will probably be that good of a Head Coach. He sees the game very well and runs the offense accordingly. I was never big on Canales, but seeing how bad Grizzard was helped me realize with Canales, it could have been way worse and he was at least effective enough in my book to let Baker play to his strengths. Coen is the exception. I think Baker with Canales is the real Baker.The thing that throws me most about the overall Mayfield discussion is that:
1. He has 4000 yards and 28 TDs and 10 INTs with Canales as the OC. This is with the leagues WORST rushing attack and its still better offensive scoring than Canales 24 (top 10 rushing attack) and 25 (19th rushing attack) offenses. So some of that success is on Mayfield's play.
2. Mayfield goes UP with Coen to 4500 yards 41 and 16. He has a healthy line and a top 3 or 4 rushing attack. So some of Mayfield's success is on Coen and good health.
3. Mayfield's lowest production is 2025 with a ROOKIE OC who was fired and a big step back in rushing attack. So some of the struggles have to be on the OC, right? Injury
So, if you are trying to figure out what you have with Mayfield, how in the world do you conclude that he is the last 11 games of 2025?
It has to be somewhere between 2023 Canales and 2024 Coen, not the last 11 games with Grizz when the team is collapsing.
One easy way to highlight that point is just to reverse the cherry picking (or recency bias, whatever you want to call it) and say that based on the first 8 games Mayfield has the Bucs at 6-2 and he is on his way to 4000 yards 28ish TDs and a handful of INTs . . with soon-to-be-fired Grizz as the OC.
That should mean that:
Grizz is more the "flop" (he was fired and not rehired as OC)
Canales the "floor" (he was hired as a HC and play caller); and,
Coen may be the "best performance" (we will see with Robinson).
A 2026 NFL QB who performs up slightly from the "floor" and down slightly from the "best performance" throws for 4000ish yard, 30 TDs and 12-13 INTs is top QB. Seattle wins a SB with Darnold at 4000, 25 TDs and 14 INTs
Awesome thanks for answering.
I would think Baker is sort of "Canales +"
I throw on the "+" because any OC now would see what he does best, which in my view is manage a run-strong offense that spreads the passing game around quickly and with many passes being an extension of the run game. Canales 2023 had a putrid run game. It was just that Cananles was committed to it as part of running a balanced offense
Not sure what "Canales" or Canales +" translates into for QB contract value but a "canales/Canales+" QB won a Super Bowl (admittedly with a defense I dont not expect the Bucs to produce)
Baker played at that level the first 9 games because no one had anything on Grizzard and how he would call games. Once the gameplan was out there and the adjustments made, Baker wasn't a good enough QB to adjust on his own. A good OC would change things up (see Coen and to some degree Canales). They would shift how they called games. Grizzard was incapable of doing that and Baker Mayfield is NOT Tom Brady so his play diminished significantly PLUS the injuries not only to himself but others definitely had an impact on the offense.
this seems obvious
use Egbuka as an example. Egbuka lights it up early (no film) but the defenses adjust to take him away, double teams, man press, out in the X role, and his production drops off
Thee "genius" of Coen was he was always adapting, even in game. Of course defense are going to defend a mostly static Grizz offense better late
That truly was the genius of Liam Coen. Canales never showed the ability (to me) at that level but as Fire mentioned, Grizzard's playcalling made Canales look like McVay.Baker played at that level the first 9 games because no one had anything on Grizzard and how he would call games. Once the gameplan was out there and the adjustments made, Baker wasn't a good enough QB to adjust on his own. A good OC would change things up (see Coen and to some degree Canales). They would shift how they called games. Grizzard was incapable of doing that and Baker Mayfield is NOT Tom Brady so his play diminished significantly PLUS the injuries not only to himself but others definitely had an impact on the offense.
this seems obvious
use Egbuka as an example. Egbuka lights it up early (no film) but the defenses adjust to take him away, double teams, man press, out in the X role, and his production drops off
Thee "genius" of Coen was he was always adapting, even in game. Of course defense are going to defend a mostly static Grizz offense better late
With Robinson, I am hopefully that we land somewhere between Canales and Coen. There is no way I expect the offense to be as explosive as Coen's did but as long as we get something close to the Canales version, I think that bodes well for our Bucs.......that is until Bowles and his brilliance in defensive schemes rack up the losses. The underlying problem with all of this discussion is if you had to point to one thing that cost the team last year over anything else, it was the inability of the defense to prevent offenses from scoring. Tampa averaged somewhere in the neighborhood of 20+ PPG but that defense (and ST) stunk to high heaven.I think the 2023 Canales version is probably the "real" Baker Mayfield. I think Coen was that good of an OC and I suspect he will probably be that good of a Head Coach. He sees the game very well and runs the offense accordingly. I was never big on Canales, but seeing how bad Grizzard was helped me realize with Canales, it could have been way worse and he was at least effective enough in my book to let Baker play to his strengths. Coen is the exception. I think Baker with Canales is the real Baker.The thing that throws me most about the overall Mayfield discussion is that:
1. He has 4000 yards and 28 TDs and 10 INTs with Canales as the OC. This is with the leagues WORST rushing attack and its still better offensive scoring than Canales 24 (top 10 rushing attack) and 25 (19th rushing attack) offenses. So some of that success is on Mayfield's play.
2. Mayfield goes UP with Coen to 4500 yards 41 and 16. He has a healthy line and a top 3 or 4 rushing attack. So some of Mayfield's success is on Coen and good health.
3. Mayfield's lowest production is 2025 with a ROOKIE OC who was fired and a big step back in rushing attack. So some of the struggles have to be on the OC, right? Injury
So, if you are trying to figure out what you have with Mayfield, how in the world do you conclude that he is the last 11 games of 2025?
It has to be somewhere between 2023 Canales and 2024 Coen, not the last 11 games with Grizz when the team is collapsing.
One easy way to highlight that point is just to reverse the cherry picking (or recency bias, whatever you want to call it) and say that based on the first 8 games Mayfield has the Bucs at 6-2 and he is on his way to 4000 yards 28ish TDs and a handful of INTs . . with soon-to-be-fired Grizz as the OC.
That should mean that:
Grizz is more the "flop" (he was fired and not rehired as OC)
Canales the "floor" (he was hired as a HC and play caller); and,
Coen may be the "best performance" (we will see with Robinson).
A 2026 NFL QB who performs up slightly from the "floor" and down slightly from the "best performance" throws for 4000ish yard, 30 TDs and 12-13 INTs is top QB. Seattle wins a SB with Darnold at 4000, 25 TDs and 14 INTs
Awesome thanks for answering.
I would think Baker is sort of "Canales +"
I throw on the "+" because any OC now would see what he does best, which in my view is manage a run-strong offense that spreads the passing game around quickly and with many passes being an extension of the run game. Canales 2023 had a putrid run game. It was just that Cananles was committed to it as part of running a balanced offense
Not sure what "Canales" or Canales +" translates into for QB contract value but a "canales/Canales+" QB won a Super Bowl (admittedly with a defense I dont not expect the Bucs to produce)
Haha, showing your ignorance now, Biggs. Byron Leftwich was a good OC. Twice in four years, Leftwich’s quarterbacks passed for more than 5,000 yards. Under Leftwich, the Buccaneers averaged 28.6 points per game (2019), 30.75 (2020) and 30.05 (2021) before slumping to 18.4 (2022) in Tom Brady’s final season. Even so, the Buccaneers ranked first or second in passing yards each year during Leftwich’s tenure.The OC gave the QB quite a few plays to make, but he didn't.
Wut
You act like Grizzard was Byron Leftwich. If he was, he wouldn’t have a job right now - like Leftwich didn’t have a job for years.
You want to know what Byron Leftwich was doing in 2023 and 2024 before being hired by Colorado? He was being a dad. He got back into coaching when he was ready to get back into coaching and not before then. So no, Grizzard isn't on the same planet as Byron Leftwich when it comes to OC ability and evidence. Grizzard was absolutely horrid. Leftwich was a head coaching candidate for a couple of jobs. You can paint it any stupid way you like, but you are just flat wrong. Grizzard was the biggest problem with the Tampa Bay offense last season.
Sure, I can put it another way: the QB missed receivers that were schemed open. The QB made bad reads independent of the OC. The QB made bad throws independent of the OC. The QB’s drop in the play isn’t because of the OC.
Yes there were examples of players getting open, often deep... Where Mayfield was definitely missing.
So you know what you do when a shooter is missing shots? You get him some easy ones.
Grizz was autistic in his play calling. He had no feel... He couldn't feed a hot hand and he couldn't unrattle a cage. He called every play with almost zero situational awareness.
Which ironically was Lefty's issue(s) at the end.
And for all that was schemed open, there were plenty of horrid calls that had zero chance from the start... And by plenty I mean the majority of his play calling outside of the first 15 plays.
they won with those OL injuries when Mayfield played well.
So he failed to OVERCOME the team's problems in the second the season.
when the defense couldn't stop 3rd and 28
snd ST was kicking the ball out of the EZ
great
the Bucs lost that group of late games by 4 points, 1 point, 3 points ....
calls that had zero chance from the start.
Wanting to go deeper requires more time.
Having the worst Guards in football = less time.
and knee caps the run game
"As a rookie in 2024, Bucky had the 10th-highest explosive rate of all running backs. Last year? He was 45th."
OVERCOME!
Haha, showing your ignorance now, Biggs. Byron Leftwich was a good OC.
Jesus Christ...
I've seen people post that sarcastically and get some laughs. Only the leghumpers have said that and meant it. I don't think you're a leghumper. After this next post, I think you are laughably clueless.
Twice in four years, Leftwich’s quarterbacks passed for more than 5,000 yards. Under Leftwich, the Buccaneers averaged 28.6 points per game (2019), 30.75 (2020) and 30.05 (2021) before slumping to 18.4 (2022) in Tom Brady’s final season. Even so, the Buccaneers ranked first or second in passing yards each year during Leftwich’s tenure.
It tells me a lot that you aren't able to see the difference between when Bruce Arians was around - and calling the plays - vs. when he was not around and calling the plays.
You want to know what Byron Leftwich was doing in 2023 and 2024 before being hired by Colorado? He was being a dad. He got back into coaching when he was ready to get back into coaching and not before then. So no, Grizzard isn't on the same planet as Byron Leftwich when it comes to OC ability and evidence. Grizzard was absolutely horrid. Leftwich was a head coaching candidate for a couple of jobs. You can paint it any stupid way you like, but you are just flat wrong. Grizzard was the biggest problem with the Tampa Bay offense last season.
That's weird. He sure was begging for a lot of job interviews - taking every interview he was offered, to no avail. And then "when he was ready to get back into coaching" he could only land a job as assistant coach in college. Not an Assistant Head Coach, Not an OC, not a QB coach, not an OL coach, not a TE coach, not a RB coach, not a WR, not a ST coach - simply an assistant coach. That was all he could get after sitting on his couch for over two years. When Colorado OC's was demoted during the 2025 season, do you know who was not promoted to OC? It was the same guy that was not given the OC when they hired a new one this offseason. Your boy, Byron Leftwich is still a lowly assistant coach - I guess. I can't find any reporting otherwise, but the sorry bastard isn't even listed on the team's website anymore.
Look guy, this makes any and all of your praises/criticisms of OC's from hence forth moot. You haven't the foggiest idea as to what you're talking about.
Sure, I can put it another way: the QB missed receivers that were schemed open. The QB made bad reads independent of the OC. The QB made bad throws independent of the OC. The QB’s drop in the play isn’t because of the OC.
Yes there were examples of players getting open, often deep... Where Mayfield was definitely missing.
So you know what you do when a shooter is missing shots? You get him some easy ones.
Grizz was autistic in his play calling. He had no feel... He couldn't feed a hot hand and he couldn't unrattle a cage. He called every play with almost zero situational awareness.
Which ironically was Lefty's issue(s) at the end.
And for all that was schemed open, there were plenty of horrid calls that had zero chance from the start... And by plenty I mean the majority of his play calling outside of the first 15 plays.
Again, I'm not making the case that Grizzard didn't have issues. I'm not even saying he should have been retained. I've said the opposite. He, and the rest of the coaching staff, should have been shown the door.
None of that changes that the OC had plenty of plays for the QB to make in the first six game and the QB made them. The QB didn't make as many of those plays in the last 11 games. And it wasn't just Mayfield's legs that was the difference. His QB play declined, not just the running, and that's an important point. Five of those six games, he had a QB rating over 98.0. He didn't play as well after that. Over the next 11 games, he only had one game over a QB rating of 98.0. It wasn't just his legs in those first six games, he was playing great from the pocket. That stopped. Overall, it was his worse year as a Buccaneer.
Haha, showing your ignorance now, Biggs. Byron Leftwich was a good OC. Twice in four years, Leftwich’s quarterbacks passed for more than 5,000 yards. Under Leftwich, the Buccaneers averaged 28.6 points per game (2019), 30.75 (2020) and 30.05 (2021) before slumping to 18.4 (2022) in Tom Brady’s final season. Even so, the Buccaneers ranked first or second in passing yards each year during Leftwich’s tenure.The OC gave the QB quite a few plays to make, but he didn't.
Wut
You act like Grizzard was Byron Leftwich. If he was, he wouldn’t have a job right now - like Leftwich didn’t have a job for years.
You want to know what Byron Leftwich was doing in 2023 and 2024 before being hired by Colorado? He was being a dad. He got back into coaching when he was ready to get back into coaching and not before then. So no, Grizzard isn't on the same planet as Byron Leftwich when it comes to OC ability and evidence. Grizzard was absolutely horrid. Leftwich was a head coaching candidate for a couple of jobs. You can paint it any stupid way you like, but you are just flat wrong. Grizzard was the biggest problem with the Tampa Bay offense last season.
I think Lefty and Grizzard with some oversight are not as bad people are saying.
What bothers me though is that with Zampese and Moore on staff the Bucs offense still has issues we are talking about after Arians has left.
It is my firm belief that if you have Ken Zampese of all people on staff that your offense should not be that bad even with a green OC like Grizzard. Or if Moore is on staff that Lefty shouldn't implode as soon as Arians walks away.
Tom Moore and Ken Zampese are legendary OCs in their own right but the Bucs have no business having the offense suffer so much outside of Coen and Arians walking way. That is my belief.
Haha, showing your ignorance now, Biggs. Byron Leftwich was a good OC.
Jesus Christ...
I've seen people post that sarcastically and get some laughs. Only the leghumpers have said that and meant it. I don't think you're a leghumper. After this next post, I think you are laughably clueless.
Twice in four years, Leftwich’s quarterbacks passed for more than 5,000 yards. Under Leftwich, the Buccaneers averaged 28.6 points per game (2019), 30.75 (2020) and 30.05 (2021) before slumping to 18.4 (2022) in Tom Brady’s final season. Even so, the Buccaneers ranked first or second in passing yards each year during Leftwich’s tenure.
It tells me a lot that you aren't able to see the difference between when Bruce Arians was around - and calling the plays - vs. when he was not around and calling the plays.
You want to know what Byron Leftwich was doing in 2023 and 2024 before being hired by Colorado? He was being a dad. He got back into coaching when he was ready to get back into coaching and not before then. So no, Grizzard isn't on the same planet as Byron Leftwich when it comes to OC ability and evidence. Grizzard was absolutely horrid. Leftwich was a head coaching candidate for a couple of jobs. You can paint it any stupid way you like, but you are just flat wrong. Grizzard was the biggest problem with the Tampa Bay offense last season.
That's weird. He sure was begging for a lot of job interviews - taking every interview he was offered, to no avail. And then "when he was ready to get back into coaching" he could only land a job as assistant coach in college. Not an Assistant Head Coach, Not an OC, not a QB coach, not an OL coach, not a TE coach, not a RB coach, not a WR, not a ST coach - simply an assistant coach. That was all he could get after sitting on his couch for over two years. When Colorado OC's was demoted during the 2025 season, do you know who was not promoted to OC? It was the same guy that was not given the OC when they hired a new one this offseason. Your boy, Byron Leftwich is still a lowly assistant coach - I guess. I can't find any reporting otherwise, but the sorry bastard isn't even listed on the team's website anymore.
Look guy, this makes any and all of your praises/criticisms of OC's from hence forth moot. You haven't the foggiest idea as to what you're talking about.
"Hello, 911? Yes, I'd like to report a dead body"