I think he is fool's gold as Matt Ryan and Atlanta feel that ways strongly
Huh? Or, they went and hired a two time coach of the year in Stefanski.
As has been reported, we ended up pursuing Coen because Robinson took himself out of consideration when he selected Atlanta in 2024. However, he was the top of the list at the time.
This. Baker made Coen. He will do the same with Robinson. It’s weird…
Coen just went to the Jags and made Lawrence look damn good so... Not sure what you mean by this
Two of Baker’s past three OC’s ended up as OCs. He has a history of making an OC look good. Robinson hasn’t had a QB like Baker since he’s been an OC. It may take two seasons but Robinson will be a head coach soon.
Can't both be true
1 - Baker has made some head coaches with his quarterback play in Canales and Coen
2 - Coen has proven to be an elite offensive mind with Baker looking like a top 5 QB with him, top 15 otherwise; Trevor Lawrence being a fringe top 20 guy looking damn near top 10 under Coen.
Correct. But then you look at Canales. You know, the OC who became a head coach before Coen was even discovered by the Bucs. So now you have a melba toast personality with a decent OC resume, come to Tampa and Baker elevates him in 19 short weeks to a head coaching position. Baker is in some rare territory.
I never thought canales was anything special but clearly better than lefty and grizzy
put it this way, I’m glad coen is with Jacksonville and not Carolina
Canales didnt get the HC job because of Mayfield, at least not exclusively so. He got it for his reputation as a QB whisperer and because he is/was a head coach-in-waiting. He's a better HC than an OC. A lot of QB success is tied to nothing more that the Pete Carroll offensive philosophy. He hasnt made the Carolina QB a world beater, Hes just put in an offense (and defense) around hin that wins game without him, takes much of the pressure of the QB
Canales didnt get the HC job because of Mayfield, at least not exclusively so. He got it for his reputation as a QB whisperer and because he is/was a head coach-in-waiting. He's a better HC than an OC. A lot of QB success is tied to nothing more that the Pete Carroll offensive philosophy. He hasnt made the Carolina QB a world beater, Hes just put in an offense (and defense) around hin that wins game without him, takes much of the pressure of the QB
i dont know, i'd suggest Baker was the main reason Canales got the job
Baker resurrected his career under Canales and at the time was Bakers best season as a Pro
And i know we dont like "last several games" type trends when it comes to proving a point, but the Bucs went on to finish the regular season 5-1, two of which wins came against Carolina. The Bucs offense scored 29+ points in half of those games. Also, the Bucs won a playoff game where Baker threw for over 300 yards in both playoff games, 6 TDs, 2 INTs.
The Panthers saw what Canales could do with a former #1 overall pick and thought, hey maybe he can do the same with Bryce Young.
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if we only had to give credit to 1 person as i know it's a mix of both, i'd lean like this, and again, going by what we know today and how Coen performed in Jacksonville, Baker without Coen:
I give Baker credit for Canales and Baker's 2023 season performance. This got Canales a head coaching gig.
I give Coen credit for Coen and Bakers 2024 season performance. Baker got Coen the head coaching gig, but Coen showed in 2025 that if he has a competent QB, he can elevate their play.
I give Baker credit for Grizzy and Baker's 2025 season performance.
Bucs were sitting at 5-1, a third of the way through season, decimated by injuries throughout the offensive line and players and Baker was at 12 TDs, 1 INTs with 1,500 passing yards.
extrapolate those numbers for a full 17 games - Baker at 34 TDs, 3 INTs, with 4,400 yards. Pretty darn close to 2024 levels
Bucs then go 1-4 in next 5 games - Baker 6 TDs, 4 INT, 867 yards which would extrapolate to 20 TDs, 14 INTs and 2900 yards. The final game included in this stretch was the Rams game where we were out of in the first quarter and baker got hurt, again, before his documented injury.
you know what's next Olaf....the moment you've been waiting for....the next, the final 6 games where Bucs went 2-4. Baker with 8 TDs, 6 INTs, 1300 yards which would extrapolate to 23TDs, 17INTs, and 3600 yards. The interesting take away there is that the 6 games following the injury where awfully comparable to the 5 games proceeding it.
Clearly Grizz wasn't going to get another OC job given how the season transpired particularly with Baker having his worst year as a Buc but he was hired by the Eagles as a contingency plan if Sean Mannion doesn't work out.
Now....if you want to call mulligan and give Baker injury excuse, i guess we do the same for Grizz or no he was just as bad. I remember Canales would start alot of drive with back to back runs to set up 3rd and 7s an awful lot back in 2023 so i guess it's all about execution ehh
i dont know, i'd suggest Baker was the main reason Canales got the job
So, you may be right and who is say what was in the mind of David Tepper (Panthers owner)?
But, the reason I made my post was because Tepper specifically hired Frank Reich to bring out the best in the QB Tepper drafted (over objections form the coaches and staff). In Reich's hiring press conference, Tepper emphasized the offensive mind of Reich and SPECIFICALLY his ability to develop a QB. This is from the Reich reporting
"Tepper openly admitted he didn't want another "CEO-type" coach, acknowledging the 2020 Matt Rhule hiring was a mistake. He actively sought a coach who specialized in developing quarterbacks and building strong."
BY COMPARISON, no press conference for Canales but the STATEMENT released by Tepper focused back on the CEO-types for Morgan and Canales, BOTH SEAHAWKS, Pete Carroll guys .. importantly as Tepper stepped back into the shadows (supposedly lol)
"Let me tell ya a little bit about Dan and Dave. They are tremendous people, well respected and they are both connectors. Dan has 14 years of front-office experience throughout the league. When Dan was a player, he kept the defense connected and on the same page. And I've seen those traits with him translate throughout this building with everyone—including scouts, players and coaches. He keeps everybody moving in the right direction. As a player, he had a relentless pursuit of excellence, which he'll bring to this organization.
"Dave Canales brings that same quality to players and coaches, and on the field every day. He has a track record of bringing the best out of players. He is a connector. He takes the time to work with players to create an environment that will earn their trust and maximize their ability
"Each of them brings experience from winning programs. They share the same vision for our organization and are aligned on how they'll get there."
FWIW
i dont know, i'd suggest Baker was the main reason Canales got the job
Baker resurrected his career under Canales and at the time was Bakers best season as a Pro
And i know we dont like "last several games" type trends when it comes to proving a point, but the Bucs went on to finish the regular season 5-1, two of which wins came against Carolina. The Bucs offense scored 29+ points in half of those games. Also, the Bucs won a playoff game where Baker threw for over 300 yards in both playoff games, 6 TDs, 2 INTs.
The Panthers saw what Canales could do with a former #1 overall pick and thought, hey maybe he can do the same with Bryce Young.
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if we only had to give credit to 1 person as i know it's a mix of both, i'd lean like this, and again, going by what we know today and how Coen performed in Jacksonville, Baker without Coen:
I give Baker credit for Canales and Baker's 2023 season performance. This got Canales a head coaching gig.
I give Coen credit for Coen and Bakers 2024 season performance. Baker got Coen the head coaching gig, but Coen showed in 2025 that if he has a competent QB, he can elevate their play.
I give Baker credit for Grizzy and Baker's 2025 season performance.
Bucs were sitting at 5-1, a third of the way through season, decimated by injuries throughout the offensive line and players and Baker was at 12 TDs, 1 INTs with 1,500 passing yards.
extrapolate those numbers for a full 17 games - Baker at 34 TDs, 3 INTs, with 4,400 yards. Pretty darn close to 2024 levels
Bucs then go 1-4 in next 5 games - Baker 6 TDs, 4 INT, 867 yards which would extrapolate to 20 TDs, 14 INTs and 2900 yards. The final game included in this stretch was the Rams game where we were out of in the first quarter and baker got hurt, again, before his documented injury.
you know what's next Olaf....the moment you've been waiting for....the next, the final 6 games where Bucs went 2-4. Baker with 8 TDs, 6 INTs, 1300 yards which would extrapolate to 23TDs, 17INTs, and 3600 yards. The interesting take away there is that the 6 games following the injury where awfully comparable to the 5 games proceeding it.
Clearly Grizz wasn't going to get another OC job given how the season transpired particularly with Baker having his worst year as a Buc but he was hired by the Eagles as a contingency plan if Sean Mannion doesn't work out.
Now....if you want to call mulligan and give Baker injury excuse, i guess we do the same for Grizz or no he was just as bad. I remember Canales would start alot of drive with back to back runs to set up 3rd and 7s an awful lot back in 2023 so i guess it's all about execution ehh
Agreed.
To me it is clear that Baker controls his destiny.
Now....if you want to call mulligan and give Baker injury excuse, i guess we do the same for Grizz or no he was just as bad. I remember Canales would start alot of drive with back to back runs to set up 3rd and 7s an awful lot back in 2023 so i guess it's all about execution ehh
Canales and Grizz are more alike as OCs, both running mostly someone else's relatively stock offense. the difference is that Canales was a HC when he got to the Bucs. That's been his focus under Carroll before. Grizz is sort of a quiet behind the scenes guy, at least at this moment.
Coen is an extremely creative play caller and designer. Next level
FWIW this is in the Fab 5 today:
"[Robinson] is expected to adopt a short, rhythmic passing game that Coen used to make Mayfield so productive. Josh Grizzard tried to implement more of a downfield passing attack last year that resembled his roots with the Miami Dolphins, but it was not nearly as successful, which led to his firing after one season.
We’ve seen that take hold in the offseason practices, plus a healthy amount of pre-snap motion and even double motion, and a nice mix of Mayfield under center and in shotgun (no pistol)."
FWIW
training camp
"The biggest run of the day was out of the pony package, when Irving took the carry on a delayed handoff, accelerated through the middle of the field, and was able to speed down the field."
remember when the pony package was an anti-White a gimmick play
FWIW
training camp
"The biggest run of the day was out of the pony package, when Irving took the carry on a delayed handoff, accelerated through the middle of the field, and was able to speed down the field."
remember when the pony package was an anti-White a gimmick play
Irving has looked good out of the pony under Cohen so this is not surprising to be honest. Irving thrives from off balance formations and hand offs. What should be concerning is the short yardage situations as White is no longer on the team and they now must rely on Tucker or KG for that. To be honest KG may not be big but he understands how to gain positive yardage so he might be a sneaky good short yardage back when teamed with Irving jr out of the pony formation. We will see.
The wide zone thing is interesting to me as I ‘m pretty sure I remember Coen wanted to install - but Bucs o-line had some problems with executing it effectively. Also seem to recall he switched back to a gap scheme.
Coen mentioned spotting that we didn’t have success with wide zone, early in the season, he decided to use gap scheme whenever the Bucs ran into a team they struggled playing wide zone. He felt this gave us more options by being able to switch between zone schemes.
So now we’’ll commit to wide?
Was that a Raschaad White issue?
FWIW
training camp
"The biggest run of the day was out of the pony package, when Irving took the carry on a delayed handoff, accelerated through the middle of the field, and was able to speed down the field."
remember when the pony package was an anti-White a gimmick play
Irving has looked good out of the pony under Cohen so this is not surprising to be honest. Irving thrives from off balance formations and hand offs. What should be concerning is the short yardage situations as White is no longer on the team and they now must rely on Tucker or KG for that. To be honest KG may not be big but he understands how to gain positive yardage so he might be a sneaky good short yardage back when teamed with Irving jr out of the pony formation. We will see.
I thought hey would get a big back for that reason. They are out there, but I guess they feel okay with what they have.
Id have to look back at a year like 2024 to see what role White played in short yardage.
The wide zone thing is interesting to me as I ‘m pretty sure I remember Coen wanted to install - but Bucs o-line had some problems with executing it effectively. Also seem to recall he switched back to a gap scheme.
Coen mentioned spotting that we didn’t have success with wide zone, early in the season, he decided to use gap scheme whenever the Bucs ran into a team they struggled playing wide zone. He felt this gave us more options by being able to switch between zone schemes.
So now we’’ll commit to wide?
Was that a Raschaad White issue?
this is a great point because its weird to see Robinson go back to wide zone when the Coen experiment seemed to show our like can be dominant in gap.
Maybe Fire knows but is Irving more suited for wide zone. It seems like Tucker should be because hes so fast so one cut and go, but if your line isn't well suited doesnt it sort of make it doomed? Isnt that why Coen evolved away from it?
I think (could be wrong) that White didnt naturally have the plant a foot and go mentality.. take the two or three yards they are giving you, as opposed to wait for a bigger opportunity and lose 3. And that seems like that mentality would be better for wide zone? Not sure.
yeah, it may have been something White couldn’t do, or the line didn’t execute, or maybe a bit of both - or it may have been that what White showed him in the screen game took advantage of the gap scheme better - and allowed White to be elite in that role? More opportunities presented themselves in gap that didn’t necessarily in wide zone (or maybe I just don’t have the understanding of the nuances of zone blocking schemes)?The wide zone thing is interesting to me as I ‘m pretty sure I remember Coen wanted to install - but Bucs o-line had some problems with executing it effectively. Also seem to recall he switched back to a gap scheme.
Coen mentioned spotting that we didn’t have success with wide zone, early in the season, he decided to use gap scheme whenever the Bucs ran into a team they struggled playing wide zone. He felt this gave us more options by being able to switch between zone schemes.
So now we’’ll commit to wide?
Was that a Raschaad White issue?
this is a great point because its weird to see Robinson go back to wide zone when the Coen experiment seemed to show our like can be dominant in gap.
Maybe Fire knows but is Irving more suited for wide zone. It seems like Tucker should be because hes so fast so one cut and go, but if your line isn't well suited doesnt it sort of make it doomed? Isnt that why Coen evolved away from it?
I think (could be wrong) that White didnt naturally have the plant a foot and go mentality.. take the two or three yards they are giving you, as opposed to wait for a bigger opportunity and lose 3. And that seems like that mentality would be better for wide zone? Not sure.
I just wonder if this is Zach’s standard, or if he can adapt as Coen could?
It will have me paying attention, it’s a great topic.
