Hopefully we could agree that if you think White was game planned then it wasn't very effective?
Seemed pretty damn effective to me, considering how piss poor he was graded in coverage that year (which was obvious if you had a functioning set of eyes).
We are talking about two different things. You are saying White was not good in coverage. I agree
I disagreed that he was game planned or that it was effective, if he was.
In the 2025 season, especially when it mattered, teams went TE and RB passing. An anonymous Dolphins TE had a career day, the Falcons TE (Pitts) a career day. The Bucs had middle of the league RB receiving targets, but worst in the league yardage on receptions to RBs at almost 900 yards. The Bucs defense was tied for 2nd worst defense in touchdown passes to TEs. By comparison the Bucs defense of 2025 was average to just above average in terms of TDs to WRs.
Opposing offenses PICKED ON the 2025 Bucs LBs INTENTIONALLY (ie as a game plan)
By comparison, the 2020 defense only allowed 600 receiving yards to RBs while being the 2nd highest targeted to RBs. The 2020 Bucs defense was tied for 9th worse in touchdown passes to TEs while also being average in terms of TDs to WRs.
So, worse in every respect . . . as one would expect. If teams thought they would beat the Bucs by targeting White in the passing game in 2020, it did not work out that way or appear that way even in games. And he countered that with 9 sacks and 15 Tackles for a loss
Another way of seeing that is the truth above, is to just to see that Biggs has now joined the fryy AND he's done so by trying to SHIFT the DISCUSSION:
the dingleberry would posit that Devin White wasn't attacked in coverage
I said he wasnt the game plan for opposing offenses and if he was it was not very effective.
The Bucs 2025 LBers featured negatively in the Bucs games because they were the game plan. Just asked Kye Pitts or even better Dolphin Greg Dulchich lol who had his first TD catch since 2022 . . courtesy of SVD.
the dingleberry
Biggs you are the intellectual equivalent of a 6 year old with a paint gun . .. in a game filled with adults.
You're more likely to shoot yourself (Licht is TRUTH . . except when he has to be "deciphered" lmao) then to hit any other target and when you splatter yourself . . you CRY like a little baby ("dingleberry") hoping to find cover from the adults.
We are talking about two different things. You are saying White was not good in coverage. I agree
I disagreed that he was game planned or that it was effective, if he was.
Then we’ll agree to disagree.
He was 100% game-planned by a number of OC’s.
They knew he had zero gap discipline, he couldn’t recognize basic offensive concepts, he was an easy mark for play action, and was absolutely lost in coverage.
He was CONSTANTLY BAILED OUT by LVD.
But, as I said, congrats on the numerous sacks where he had free looks and unobstructed lanes to the QB (67% of his sack came in 2 games). Generational stuff and Canton worthy.
Almost as impressive as his tweets.
My problem with White was more of his free lancing out of his gap and tackling lapses. We knew the Bucs drafted him to be a downhill player in Bowles scheme but the problem is that his tackling and gap discipline outweighed a lot of this sacks and TFL.
I mean Dennis is basically a carbon clone of White minus some athleticism but he was a 5th round pick. White was at top 5 pick and taking an off ball LB in the top five was a gamble. Arians was willing to roll the dice and as long as he was HC he could manage such a personality to change the tone of the defense. But when Bowles became HC White just went off the rails because Bowles can't handle a player like White because he doesn't have that factor.
We are talking about two different things. You are saying White was not good in coverage. I agree
I disagreed that he was game planned or that it was effective, if he was.
Then we’ll agree to disagree.
He was 100% game-planned by a number of OC’s.
They knew he had zero gap discipline, he couldn’t recognize basic offensive concepts, he was an easy mark for play action, and was absolutely lost in coverage.
He was CONSTANTLY BAILED OUT by LVD.
But, as I said, congrats on the numerous sacks where he had free looks and unobstructed lanes to the QB (67% of his sack came in 2 games). Generational stuff and Canton worthy.
Almost as impressive as his tweets.
Yep, agree to disagree.
Hopefully it plays out better for Trotter who at least seems to have his head on right.
I mean Dennis is basically a carbon clone of White minus some athleticism
Lmao, come on now.
I mean athleticism is a pretty big difference and Dennis is a church mouse. The thing that many hate about White (his personality) was also part of what made him and the defense succeed. That defense dominated the Chiefs in the Super Bowl.
I think you mean that Dennis could do certain aspects of White's role, like the downhill stuff, but they were not even on the same planet. White just gets outsized "hate" from many because he's an asshole and because of his draft position. Nothing worse that a loud mouth who doesn't live up tpo the hype. I get that, BUT as I posted earlier, in 2020 White is a second team All-Pro behind two of the most revered MLBs of this era. Statistically, he out performs them and his performance was part of winning a SB.
SVD is NOT outperforming anyone, let alone two all pros. Or, winning a Super Bowl. He might have a tough time keeping his job.
He was 100% game-planned by a number of OC’s.
They knew he had zero gap discipline, he couldn’t recognize basic offensive concepts, he was an easy mark for play action, and was absolutely lost in coverage.
All of this is accurate, obviously.
He was 100% game-planned by a number of OC’s.
They knew he had zero gap discipline, he couldn’t recognize basic offensive concepts, he was an easy mark for play action, and was absolutely lost in coverage.
All of this is accurate, obviously. . . according to Licht
SPLAT!
I mean Dennis is basically a carbon clone of White minus some athleticism
Lmao, come on now.
I mean athleticism is a pretty big difference and Dennis is a church mouse. The thing that many hate about White (his personality) was also part of what made him and the defense succeed. That defense dominated the Chiefs in the Super Bowl.
I think you mean that Dennis could do certain aspects of White's role, like the downhill stuff, but they were not even on the same planet. White just gets outsized "hate" from many because he's an asshole and because of his draft position. Nothing worse that a loud mouth who doesn't live up tpo the hype. I get that, BUT as I posted earlier, in 2020 White is a second team All-Pro behind two of the most revered MLBs of this era. Statistically, he out performs them and his performance was part of winning a SB.
SVD is NOT outperforming anyone, let alone two all pros. Or, winning a Super Bowl. He might have a tough time keeping his job.
Dennis played with LVD in his twilight while Devin White of 2020 played with LVD in his prime so right there you are starting off from two different perspectives. Next, White in 2020 was in his second season as a starting pro while Dennis has only started one this past season.
White had 2.5 sacks as a rookie while Dennis had 3 sacks in his first season as a starter. Dennis also had 101 comb tackles, 66 solo, 35 assists, 5 PD, 1 INT, and 10 TFL in 16 games. White in comparison as a rookie had 91 comb tackles, 58 solo, 33 assists, 3 PD, 3 FF, 1 INT, and 4 TFL in 13 games.
White really turned it on with his play in 2020, 2021 and 2022 and became very productive. After one season without Arians White just dropped off the cliff and reverted to his 2019 rookie self. Which is still productive for White but he is very ordinary despite his athletic prowess.
No doubt White's athletic gifts along with LVD erased anything on the perimeter in the run game while Suh, Vea and Gholston negated anything up the middle. White did earn all pro honors and a pro bowl during his run.
But the fact that Dennis who did not look polished out there replicated a lot of what White did statistically tells me that Trotter could pull it off based on the design of this scheme. Also, when White was replaced in the line up the Bucs defense actually looked better so White did have positives but you are ignoring the negative aspects. Take Dennis's being inconsistent with his tackling, forcing things inside, and not going to his landmarks and 3x. Well that is what White was causing issues on defense and he was basically nearing the end of his rookie contract too. White had more highs as a pro than Dennis but he also had more lows too and that was the problem.
White vs Dennis? Lmfao
They both suck ass
White wasn't a good LB he was just athletic
Dennis is bad and also unathletic
Comparing the 2 cracks me up because they're both awful to watch.
White vs Dennis? Lmfao
They both suck ass
White wasn't a good LB he was just athletic
Lol, man.
White was very good MLB in Bowles scheme. That is THE point when it comes to hope for Trotter.
There's such an emotional block ("hate") on White because he was such an asshole (and because everyone wanted someone other than Trotter this draft lol) that you have people comparing White to Dennis, during the 2026 offseason no less. Roflmao.
The timing of that hilariously bad comparison- 2026 offseason - matters because we just finished the 2025 season with perhaps the WORST flats defense in history lol. Think of Dennis getting clowned by RBs catching balls in the flat and compare that to opponents being almost unable to run outside or throw into the flat because White (and LVD) were so fast they cleaned it all up.
If opposing offenses cannot run up the middle or into the flat and your defense can play zone that clean up every pass short of the line to gain . . . you have a VERY good defense. Maybe even a Super Bowl defense. And All-Pro LB play.
LMAO, Dennis may get CUT and the 2025 defense was absolutely HORRIBLE. Did anyone watch the games?
If Trotter is an All-Pro in 2 years he would have been an absolute steal. Or, think of it this way . . the 2025 defense was 20th in scoring at 24.2 points. If the defense followed a similar path to when White was in the middle of Bowles scheme it would take almost a TD a game off the board in the next season or two. That would transform the Bucs 2025 defense to one of the best in the league.
Now, many caveats: it was more than White, Bowles might not survive and then what, unfair to Trotter to expect him to be White in Bowles system etc.
But the first step to the possibility of Trotter is getting past two HUGE emotional blocks:
1) White was an ALL-PRO and for a reason (lmao) and
2) a MLB doesn't have to be Warner (or RODRIGUEZ lol) to be a major contributor in Bowles system.
In 2025 the top of the Bucs sack list was Diaby with 7, Vea with 4.5 and then LVD with 3.5. In 2020 it was JPP with 9.5, WHITE WITH 9, and Barrett with 8. NIGHT versus day to get 9 sacks from your MLB. Throw in the massive TFL numbers from that defense and its no wonder they played a big part in a SB win. The 2025 defense as PERPETUALLY on its heels. The 2020 defense was PERPETUALLY in the opponents backfield and playing straight down hill.
I totally get the White hate, but just think about the OBVIOUS conflict in positions taken on these boards
The primary and consistent take here is that Bowles is INCOMPETENT as a DC and defensive play caller and especially with his zone blitzes
BUT when it comes to White . . White was terrible and ONLY a beneficiary of . . um . . Bowles incompetence scheme and play calling? HUH? The incompetent DC with the zone blitzes? That guy is the SOLE REASON White succeeded . . he got free looks and unobstructed lanes?
To be clear for the Biggs of the world lmao, I am not saying Trotter is White or even average in pass protection AND especially because Bowles is most likely gone soon, Trotter could turn out to be a really terrible pick because he might need Bowles scheme to fully succeed in the NFL . . I totally get all of that.
Just trying to add a little balance in a world where White was only an All-Pro because of "incompetent" Bowles' scheme.
Maybe the truth is a little more in the middle?
Let me go see if Licht has ever said that . . lol
White vs Dennis? Lmfao
They both suck ass
White wasn't a good LB he was just athletic
Yup. One was over-hyped because of his draft position, while the other was the defensive savior that never was.
Dennis also had 101 comb tackles, 66 solo, 35 assists, 5 PD, 1 INT, and 10 TFL in 16 games. White in comparison as a rookie had 91 comb tackles, 58 solo, 33 assists, 3 PD, 3 FF, 1 INT, and 4 TFL in 13 games.
White had more tackles in his second season than Derrick Brooks had in his 2nd season. I assume we all agree White was no Derrick Brooks?
I get the difference in position (white/brooks) but the point I am making is that players are more than just the stats because the missing context is, like I said before, Dennis was basically a FIFTH ROUND church mouse playing on his heels whereas White was a FIFTH OVERALL leader of a successful downhill defense that had lots of talent around him. The most obvious difference being White (and LVD) cleaning up the flats and under throws as compared to SVD chasing RBs down the field. Two All-Pros versus a guy who may get cut.
But to even make that comparison you should be PISSED at the Glazers and Licht more than Bowles, right? Its the Glazers budget (something you initially denied existed) and Licht's management of that budget that has the Bucs where they are NOW compared to where they were in 2020.
Thats should be obvious just by looking at the players (and commitment, you're comparing a 5th round LB to a 5th overall LB) to players ON DEFENSE in 2025 versus 2020, but it even leaked into the OFFENSE where Mayfield got injured because LICHT didn't secure NFL-capable back ups for the O-line. 2025 was as much the Glazer/Licht neglect of talent (because of the SB $) as it was Bowles. The defense quits on Bowles but part of that is the three year decline and keeping LVD on because the Glazers dont want the heat for cutting him. Or, thinking they can catch lightning in a bottle AGAIN with Grizz, as opposed to going out and getting an accomplished OC. The players see all that. They see Mayfield running for his life because Michael Jordan isnt even trying lol. They see LVD "loafing" because he just can't keep up anymore.
If you just watch the transition of the team from 2020 to 2025 you should see a team that has been dragged further down each year by the FOCUS FIRST on the budget over talent.The 2020 defense was Suh, Vea, Barrett and JPP backed uo by TWO All-Pro LBs. When the Bucs play the Falcons in that massive collapse, the LB corp is two UFA/PS guys platooning next to a 36 year old LB (who is statistically one of the worst LBs in the league) and the front 4 is Reddick (fighting with Vea over his play), Vea, Hall and Diaby. Their only "solution" to 6' 6" Pitts was to count on guys like 5'8" Izien? They get killed by a terrible play from . . . Vildor etc.
The two teams (2020 to 2025) are NIGHT versus DAY. That does NOT absolve Bowles, just pointing out that the 2025 collapse was several years coming. If Grizz is the OC in 2024 (or really anyone other than Coen) the collapse probably happens then, especially if they dont stay so healthy. The Bucs have been pyrite for as couple years . . but hey, the cash budget and cap is finally coming around! Just in time to give Vea a big contract :-)
