I think the disaster that happened after firing Gruden has made them gun-shy. They flailed around trying to find a coach.
I don't recall the flailing around after firing Gruden. The owners pretty clearly had Morris (and Dominik) in mind when they fired Gruden (and Allen), as he was announced within 24 hours of Gruden's firing.
Is that the disaster you're referring to?
the disaster to me was more Gruden being mediocre and the lost decade that followed (morris, schiano, lovie, dirk) where the Bucs were last place for most of it, didn’t make the playoffs, drafted two first round QBs, and nothing to show for it
so it hindsight, it could have got worse and it did
we then experienced promise land again and now the expectations have risen
glazers choosing mediocrity this time around but honestly just need to pick a half decent coach, call it top 15 guy.
thought we maybe could have gotten a top 15 guy this offseason, but not sure if we go 6-11 next year, maybe an issue at QB, if we will be highly sought after with a top 10 pick and not top pick, etc
I think the disaster that happened after firing Gruden has made them gun-shy. They flailed around trying to find a coach.
I don't recall the flailing around after firing Gruden. The owners pretty clearly had Morris (and Dominik) in mind when they fired Gruden (and Allen), as he was announced within 24 hours of Gruden's firing.
Is that the disaster you're referring to?
the disaster to me was more Gruden being mediocre and the lost decade that followed (morris, schiano, lovie, dirk)
pretty sure that was the point of the OP
I think the disaster that happened after firing Gruden has made them gun-shy. They flailed around trying to find a coach.
I don't recall the flailing around after firing Gruden. The owners pretty clearly had Morris (and Dominik) in mind when they fired Gruden (and Allen), as he was announced within 24 hours of Gruden's firing.
Is that the disaster you're referring to?
the disaster to me was more Gruden being mediocre and the lost decade that followed (morris, schiano, lovie, dirk)
pretty sure that was the point of the OP
but the question becomes, was that more just atrocious GMing and Coaching
Like going from Dungy to Gruden to Raheem frickin Morris was a decision made while on magic mushrooms.
they then follow it up with another inexperienced coach in a double or nothing mode with Schiano.
Ok, so in a league that is turning offensive, we just did back to back defensive coaches, let's go with a proven defensive guy in Lovie. Disaster.
Kirk was sort of forced into it given the investment in Winston so cant really fault them for that one.
it just didnt seem like the franchise had any direction.
replacing Bowles with just anybody wouldnt be a good decision but if Kubiak was there, that would have been good. An offensive minded guy likely the direction they should head in next.
glazers choosing mediocrity this time around but honestly just need to pick a half decent coach, call it top 15 guy.
so to the OPs original post, if I am interpreting it correctly, that was sort of the same thought that led to the lost decade. Morris and Dominik represented the "franchise QB" concept that Gruden blew off. The team under Morris was an undisciplined shit show . . in comes Schiano etc
So, no matter what one thinks of Bowles he did keep the Bucs relevant when they were not expected to be by OBP and he has done that through a period of time where the team was MORE focused on dead cap.
and then this offseason and maybe next another one of the SINS of the Gruden era . . shipping out HOFers. That didnt happen this time. LVD retired on his own . . . and the team did "everything in their power" to keep Evans. Compare to shipping off Lynch and Sapp. Having Brooks sit out a season, as I recall.
Like going from Dungy to Gruden to Raheem frickin Morris was a decision made while on magic mushrooms.
no, it was "we need a franchise QB."
And it was "we can do better than Gruden." well, turns out . . .
Again, I think the OP's point. If it is certainly not hard to understand why the Glazers would be thinking of those things. They probably see themselves as wanting to emulate the Steelers (slow deliberate coaching choices) after the lost decade of multiple coaching changes.
glazers choosing mediocrity this time around but honestly just need to pick a half decent coach, call it top 15 guy.
so to the OPs original post, if I am interpreting it correctly, that was sort of the same thought that led to the lost decade. Morris and Dominik represented the "franchise QB" concept that Gruden blew off. The team under Morris was an undisciplined shit show . . in comes Schiano etc
So, no matter what one thinks of Bowles he did keep the Bucs relevant when they were not expected to be by OBP and he has done that through a period of time where the team was MORE focused on dead cap.
and then this offseason and maybe next another one of the SINS of the Gruden era . . shipping out HOFers. That didnt happen this time. LVD retired on his own . . . and the team did "everything in their power" to keep Evans. Compare to shipping off Lynch and Sapp. Having Brooks sit out a season, as I recall.
I think Brooks was more Raheem Morris if i remember correctly. His last season was 2008. Brooks has also lost a step that last year.
in terms of Gruden, the team was 9-3 and went 0-4 to miss playoffs. Hard to recover from that.
With Bowles, the team was 6-2, then fell to 6-5. The travesty is not the 2-7 finish that gets referenced but rather 2-4 record in 6 games to finish the year in which the Bucs were favored in. The two wins were rather anemic as well. The team looked night and day from the team that beat the Seahawks and 49ers in back to back weeks. So bad, that dont think we'd ever see that team again. We lost a must win game to a Dolphins team that had the back-up QB in, a lame duck for sure fired head coach, etc.
Maybe Bowles bounces back this season, but Evans didnt believe it and neither did LVD judging by their decisions. This will be a lame duck year most likely, as i said, maybe 6 wins.
Robinson would have to be Liam Coen, Baker bouncing back to 2024 levels, as the defense will be mediocre at best given the talent currently and a part time DC in Bowles.
.500 records, to your point, is better than we have witnessed pre Brady. BUT...in the way it happened last year, that's not exactly entertaining or football i'd like to see. I basically was doing other activities during that last quarter as i realized the team quit and i wasn't going to raise my blood pressure over a team that wasn't hungry for it. It reminded me of the Bucs pre Brady....which that decade, football on sundays was sort of background noise.
My fear is that we are going back to non-competitive football in November, December time frame, something we haven't seen since pre Brady.
Like going from Dungy to Gruden to Raheem frickin Morris was a decision made while on magic mushrooms.
no, it was "we need a franchise QB."
And it was "we can do better than Gruden." well, turns out . . .
Again, I think the OP's point. If it is certainly not hard to understand why the Glazers would be thinking of those things. They probably see themselves as wanting to emulate the Steelers (slow deliberate coaching choices) after the lost decade of multiple coaching changes.
it was malpractice by the Glazers then, and obviously even more evident now.
Gruden deserved to get fired after that collapse. The question is why it took so long to fire him and put the team at a disadvantage in their coaching search.
They could have done better than Gruden, but Raheem Morris was a damn kid, 33 years old if i recall correctly....and was on the defensive staff that collapsed significantly after Kiffin's decision to join his son. They were giving up 30+ points a game during that collapse. So it wasn't like he was a phenom.
not sure how well we would have been sought after but guys like Eric Mangini and Rex Ryan were available and hired that cycle.
So it wasn't like he was a phenom.
Well, he was sort of the "it guy" at the time having interviewed for the HC role at Denver (I think), but the real thing was Josh Freeman. Its easy to see the Glazers disgruntled over Gruden never drafting a franchise guy and Dom saying to them . . . "we can fix all of that."
So it wasn't like he was a phenom.
Well, he was sort of the "it guy" at the time having interviewed for the HC role at Denver (I think), but the real thing was Josh Freeman. Its easy to see the Glazers disgruntled over Gruden never drafting a franchise guy and Dom saying to them . . . "we can fix all of that."
so deciding they were dead set on a young QB and hiring a guy who wasnt even a DC to be head coach. Yikes.....the decision making was poor back then but even worse in hindsight.
So it wasn't like he was a phenom.
Well, he was sort of the "it guy" at the time having interviewed for the HC role at Denver (I think), but the real thing was Josh Freeman. Its easy to see the Glazers disgruntled over Gruden never drafting a franchise guy and Dom saying to them . . . "we can fix all of that."
so deciding they were dead set on a young QB and hiring a guy who wasnt even a DC to be head coach. Yikes.....the decision making was poor back then but even worse in hindsight.
yes, it was reactionary
I think that is why the original post resonated with me. I can envision the Glazers wanting to be much more methodical now because everything about the lost decade was transparently reactionary. Right down to the Lovie Smith hire, which was sort of a 'back to the future" move:
""Today is an exciting day for the Buccaneer organization, and the entire Tampa Bay community, as we welcome back Lovie Smith," Bucs co-chairman Bryan Glazer said. "We knew from the start of our search that he was the ideal man to lead our team into a new era of Buccaneer football.
In that quote you have "welcome back" and "start of our search". - they chose Lovie before the prior season was over. Nothing esle working . . back to the future.
Then comes Licht, as sort of a hedge of their bet against Lovie. Second choice, i think. The Chiefs blocked Ballard. Anyway, Licht won them over from there, enough to survive some early bumps in the road. Now, one of the longest tenured GMs
The 2013 team was playing decent after the bad start, especially Glennon. They definitely didn’t quit. After 0-7 they finished 4-5 with 2 losses being well fought vs Seattle and SF who were arguably the two best teams. Schiano was bringing in some serious talent in just 2 years. JBF was just talking about how the Glazers were replacing him in October.
I thought Schiano was fired at the end of the season?
The 2013 team was playing decent after the bad start, especially Glennon. They definitely didn’t quit. After 0-7 they finished 4-5 with 2 losses being well fought vs Seattle and SF who were arguably the two best teams. Schiano was bringing in some serious talent in just 2 years. JBF was just talking about how the Glazers were replacing him in October.
I thought Schiano was fired at the end of the season?
He was but I think Lovie hired only a day or two later, which is why I said Lovie was sort of hired as a no search, "back to the future" pick.
They definitely didn’t quit. After 0-7 they finished 4-5 with 2 losses being well fought vs Seattle and SF who were arguably the two best teams.
huh?
they finished on a 4 of 5 losing streak including a drubbing by the Saints. The only win being against the sub .500 Bills
But Schiano had totally lost the team with his "toes on the line" stuff, Freeman benched, the short yardage kneel down defense
The 2013 team was playing decent after the bad start, especially Glennon. They definitely didn’t quit. After 0-7 they finished 4-5 with 2 losses being well fought vs Seattle and SF who were arguably the two best teams. Schiano was bringing in some serious talent in just 2 years. JBF was just talking about how the Glazers were replacing him in October.
I thought Schiano was fired at the end of the season?
According to JBF they were looking for his replacement well before that.
They definitely didn’t quit. After 0-7 they finished 4-5 with 2 losses being well fought vs Seattle and SF who were arguably the two best teams.
huh?
they finished on a 4 of 5 losing streak including a drubbing by the Saints. The only win being against the sub .500 Bills
But Schiano had totally lost the team with his "toes on the line" stuff, Freeman benched, the short yardage kneel down defense
What do you mean huh? They finished 4-4 after starting 0-8. That’s not quitting.
Freeman was missing the morning of the Jets game. I didn’t know that to till years later.
2012 team was very good. Probably make the playoffs if there wasn’t replacement refs. Crybaby McCoy didn’t like Schiano, no surprise.