Bucs head coach Dirk Koetter – Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR
PewterReport.com is beginning a new feature off an an old one this week called the PR Roundtable. In the new edition of the Roundtable the staff will take just one topic each week and share some brief thoughts. Take a look and tell us what you think, and share your feelings on the topic in the comment section.
Pewter Report Publisher Scott Reynolds: How many wins will save Tampa Bay head coach Dirk Koetter and his staff after a dreadful 2-6 start to a season full of high expectations? That’s a great question, and a difficult one to answer. Let’s first look at the Glazers’ history of firing coaches. All of the coaches – Sam Wyche, Tony Dungy, Jon Gruden, Raheem Morris, Greg Schiano and Lovie Smith lost their last game. With the exception of Dungy, who was the only coach to be fired after a playoff game after the 2001 season, all of those coaches had a losing record in the month of December.
Wyche finished 2-7 down the stretch, including losing the last two games of the year, after a 5-2 start in 1995. Morris lost his last 11 games in 2011. Schiano was 1-3 in the month of December in 2013. Smith lost his last four games in 2015. So for Koetter it’s really going to be how he finishes this season in addition to the amount of wins.
Let’s say Tampa Bay wins three or four more games to finish 7-9 or 6-10. Getting to 6-6 or 7-7 but losing the last two or three games would leave a bad taste in the mouths of everyone affiliated with the Bucs – players, coaches, fans and ownership. Remember that Gruden was fired after a 0-4 finish to a 9-3 start during the 2008 season. Smith got the Bucs to 6-6 in 2015 before going winless over the last four games.
Unless the Bucs are dead set on hiring Jon Gruden – or someone else regardless of how the team finishes – I think Koetter needs to get to 9-7 to keep his job and win the last game of the year. Anything less would be a step back for a team that went 9-7 last year. Remember that this team had playoff expectations this year.
After winning their last two games, can the Bucs go 5-1 down the stretch? If so, Koetter deserves to stay. But with games ahead at Atlanta, at Green Bay and at Carolina, and home games against Detroit, Atlanta and New Orleans I just don’t see that happening. Beating the New York Jets and Miami is one thing. Beating playoff-caliber teams is something that this team has yet to do. I’ll believe it when I see it.
Pewter Report Editor Mark Cook: The magic number isn’t really a number in my opinion. It is how this team responds to coaching down the stretch, how competitive they are and the direction of the team over the final six games. The Bucs could go 1-5, but lose all five on a last second field goal, and I think that bodes better for Koetter, than say winning three of six, but getting blown out in the three losses.
Scott makes a good point about the timing of the losses. We saw Raheem Morris and Greg Schiano’s last games be embarrassing loses. The Glazers are proud. They don’t want to sit in their box seeing their football team being completely uncompetitive in blow out losses, knowing it will be nine more months of that bad taste in their mouth. And that kind of goes back to what I said before – how will these players respond to the coaches once, if in fact, they end up mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. The players, if they respect, and believe in the system, won’t check out and will fight to the end. It was obvious in Morris and Schiano’s final game what the players felt about their coaches.
If the Bucs can be competitive, and show some improvement over the next six games, then it is possible 7-9 is enough for the Glazers to give this staff another year. They could also ask Koetter to make some staff changes in order to return, and if Koetter refuses then that could change everything.
I won’t even get into the Gruden situation, but that also could factor in. If the Glazers do have interest in Gruden, and they feel he is most certainly taking an NFL job in 2018, then that also changes everything.
Pewter Report Buccaneers Beat Reporter Trevor Sikkema: I really do think Scott nailed it right on the head when he talked about when the wins will come meaning more than how many. I think that’s the case because of the fact that just because this team did rattle off two in a row here, taking into account who they played and the lack of control they still have when it comes to running the ball, it’s hard for me to think they’re going to finish with anything more than 8 wins, if that.
The Bucs are 4-6 right now. They have three more games at home and three more on the road. Four of those game are against division foes and the other two being at Green Bay and hosting the Lions. I’ll start by saying that if Koetter can’t get at least two more wins minimum, I think he’s gone. I think the possibility of the Buccaneers being interested in Jon Gruden and vice versa is real, and there are also rumors going around about good coaches that might hit the open market looking for a gig.
Knowing all that, if the Bucs finish worse than 6-10, Koetter is out. But, after that things could get tricky. You can’t definitely say that “if the Bucs don’t finish 8-8 or 9-7, Koetter is gone,” because what if the team drops the next game in Atlanta, wins back to back in Green Bay and then against the Lions, beats the Falcons on primetime television on Monday night, drops their second one in Carolina, but then upsets the Saints, who might be the best team in the NFL and be playing for home field advantage – that game in front of the home crowd, too. That would put the Bucs at 7-9, but that would be a pretty good feeling of 7-9 going into the offseason.
See what I mean? It’s hard to have a magic number because I believe when the wins will come mean just as much as if they will come – if they don’t, we know he’s gone anyways. I think 6-10 is the bare floor of wins Koetter needs to have a shot at being retained, and I think somehow getting to 9-7 would almost all but guarantee getting him another year. In terms of 7-9 or 8-8, I think it would be about when the wins come. If the Bucs win the next three in a row, then drop the last three, he’s gone. You can’t let owners and general managers go into the offseason with a sour taste in their mouths.
If the season plays out to where this will come down to the wire, Koetter will be fortunate to have that Saints game as the last game. It appears to be the strongest statement game for his defense as head coach, and will come at home in the final word.
PewterReport.com Intern Austin DeWitt: Following the Buccaneers’ second straight win Dirk Koetter proclaimed, “We’re 2-0 the second half of the season,” and that is exactly the mentality this team needs to have for Koetter to keep his office at One Buc Place.
For me, the magic number is seven wins. That’s not the number of wins anyone expected out of the team this year, in fact, it’s the very definition of a lost season. Not good enough for the playoffs , not bad enough for a top five pick in the draft, but I think it will be enough to save Koetter’s job.
7-9 is mediocre. It’s especially mediocre when you consider the talent on this roster. But, I think if the Bucs are able to make anything close to a run at the end of the year it could prove more valuable than drafting ten picks higher. Last year, with a 9-7 finish and the first winning season in Tampa since 2010, Koetter began to establish a winning mentality for this organization. While 7-9 is a losing season, it would not completely diminish the progress Koetter has made with this team. They will have regressed slightly, but if they are able to finish strong that would provide much needed momentum into next season and leave a chip on the shoulders of the players and coaching staff that should be motivation for next year.
In my opinion, next week’s game against the Falcons just became the biggest game of the year. The Falcons look to be a shell of the team they were last year and are very beatable. The Jets and the Dolphins are two bad teams that the Buccaneers outplayed and were still barely able to beat. The result of next Sunday’s game, for me, shows whether this team if for real about finishing strong. If they are able to go on the road and beat a divisional rival, the Bucs will get to at least 7-9 and Koetter keeps his job.
Mark Cook currently is the director of editorial content and Bucs beat writer and has written for PewterReport.com since 2011. Cook has followed the Buccaneers since 1977 when he first began watching football with his Dad and is fond of the 1979 Bucs team that came within 10 points of going to a Super Bowl. His favorite Bucs game is still the 1979 divisional playoff win 24-17 over the Eagles. In his spare time Cook enjoys playing guitar, fishing, surfing and family time at the beach. In addition, Cook can be found in front of a television or in Doak Campbell any time the FSU Seminoles are playing. Cook is a native of Pinecrest in Eastern Hillsborough County and has written for numerous publications including the Tampa Tribune, In the Field and Ya’ll Magazine. Cook can be reached at [email protected]
Agreed that the character of losses will matter as much as the number of losses, but within limits. If we only win 4-6 games this season, and given what the Glazers have seen from this crew of coaches and GM, they’re going to make changes. As in heads rolling for both Koetter and Licht, and by extension all of their respective staff.
If we win 8 or 9 games, Glazers are still going to make changes, but perhaps less drastic. Maybe fire Smith, force Koetter to hire both a new DC as well as a better offensive coordinator (we’ve seen nothing to indicate that Moncken is some kind of offensive genius, or quarterback whisperer either, given Jameis Winston’s regression this season). And Licht keeps his job another year but without a long term contract extension.
If we win fewer than 8 games, I don’t see anything but wholesale overturn.
If Koetter doesn’t at least split the last 6 games he is toast in my opinion. That is not my wish, but Buc fans are already starting to revolt. The last couple of weeks obviously is giving the organization some hope, but the toughest part of the schedule is in front of us. If we beat Atlanta twice and Greenbay we are 7 and 9. Koetter deserves to stay. If we only win one or two of the remaining games…….?
If they get us to .500 I somewhat doubt the Glazer will make a change.
I thought the decision was already made on Licht when the trade deadline came, and went without the Bucs making any moves. IMO the Glazers already knee capped Licht. That, and the fact there’s no extension for the lame duck G.M. speaks volumes. Koetter is in his second year, but Licht’s draft history hasn’t been stellar, and has left us with more questions, then answers. So I believe he’s gone, and any new G.M. will bring in his own coach. Like Scott said in fab 5, these decisions are made now, not after the last game of the season. I believe in the Glazer’s minds, this was supposed to be a playoffs, or bust, realistic or not. We all know now that ain’t happening. This regime is gone.
I think that’s right @surferdudes…this has little to do with how many more wins we might get this year….barring some miracle of going 10-6 and winning the South because of a Saints collapse. The Glazers make these decisions based on their feelings, who they like or not, what their alternatives are, and indeed believe it or not they get swayed by the fans….e.g., SchiaNo absolutely got the boot because the fans gave up on him (recall those advertisements) long before he had lost the team or the front office or the Glazers or the majority of his games.
I want Jameis healthy so we can see what we got for next season. I hope he’s ready to play after Green Bay. He is either coachable or he’s not and I would like to know that before the end of the season. I think he’s coachable with the right coaching. Let’s see what happens after Atlanta. I think you’re alittle early with Round Table discussion. Just my opinion.
Jay Cutler made career of opinions like that, we know exactly what we have Winston.
I meant this topic; I like the Round Table.
This is all BS! I don’t care if the Buc’s go 4-12 they should not change coaches. There is no magic number and the Idea that Beating the Falcons next week will dictate the future of Licht and Koetter plus the front office and coaching staff absolutely scares the hell out of me. Tampa is getting a reputation for going through coaches like sh*t through a sieve. Who will want to come here? Coaches and players aren’t stupid, they see dysfunctional programs that have a short leash on their staff and are willing to shoot before asking questions. We have good players we need to let them mature. We don’t need them having a different position or head coach change every year or so. If you cut bait this year we will be paying ex coaches more than some starters. Stop the madness, let these guys develop new players and perfect a system that will eventually win in this division. Give the team some since of identity. We all live in a world of instant gratification and that concept is fatal when trying to build a football team.
10/10 would +1 again.
Tired of all the stupid over reactions and “GIVE ME NOW” mentality that fans have. Get out of the business of making moves for the sake of making moves and actually build a stable and winning franchise.
You do realize OL & DL has , 0 1st year, 0 2nd year, 2 3rd year, 0 4th-5th-6th year, the rest are higher years. Tell me again about the time for growth?
I, too, believe Licht is gone after this season and while not universally shared, in my opinion he should be gone. His lack of appreciation for the need to invest early and often in both lines has realistically set us back two years.
It could actually turn out to be worse, since lineman can play 8-10 years while some of the skill players will age out well before that, and our QB will (hopefully) be chewing up a lot more cap space during this process.
This talented team has looked unprepared, undisciplined and inspired. Those are coaching deficiencies. The offense looks brilliant one play completely lost the next. The defense was elementary and amateurish the first half of the season. 8 wins was my initial response but the Glaziers and all the rest of us, need to see play that inspires confidence. They’ll need to finish this season just as they did last season to inspire hope. If Koetter can establish a buzz of hope again this year then that’s the hope he’ll be able to ride for another year. Without it he’ll bee without a job.
I don’t understand the hate for Licht. I think we all agree there’s lots of talent on this team. That’s his job correct? The kicker thing was stupid and cost us games but he knows that and has learning as he goes without ignorance. I say he should be safe. Koetter and Smith have lost me with their use off that talent.
I agree Eubanks…unprepared, undisciplined, and uninspired! This is a direct result of the Captain who has lost his ship! Defense…Fo sure needs some talent infusion. But the Offense has some quality talent and is clearly underperforming. That is scheme and coaching! There is no fire there! This Jamesis fiasco could cost him a 6 game suspension or so and he is do to be re-uped for around 100 mil! Do u feel comfortable giving his professional progression and his personal regressions!? I don’t. I dont think Jamesis is a 20mil/year QB at this time… could he be with the right coaching…It’s possible. But under this coaching staff and it’s Offense, I really don’t think so. U only have such a small window of opportunity to keep your core intact before injuries/salaries/old age. These last 2 games…have been boring as hell but we got the wins. Fitzpatrick has been a game manager and things don’t seem to be such a fire drill on every down. Could it be that he lacks the pure physicality of Jamesis but clearly he has a better grasp of the offense. He’s won as many games as Jamesis has and he’s played 8 less games. So, I ask you this…If you are the Glazer Boyz do u feel comfortable signing Jamesis to a 20-25 mil a year contract when Fitz is winning just as many starts as Winston a a fraction of the cost and certainly not the strain on the salary cap that a new Winston contract will, indeed, have? Can a new coach( Gruden) win with his brother’s QB…you know, like a Brad Johnson type game manager… I think it would bring some juice, sell some tickets, and add some excitement to a team that is becoming quite boring to watch sometimes…but we do because we r Buc fans!
I wouldn’t necessarily say Fitzpatrick won those games. If the defense played as well the whole season as they have the last 2 we’d be talking playoffs for real. Winston is still a puppy and with the position this defense and Koetters lack of setting up manageable 3rd downs put him in. I can see why he plays so frantic. Not to mention his sloppy left tackle whiffing behind his back. I agree he’s not worth the top dollar we thought he might be at this point but he will. Less talk and more remembering that feeling he had after his last start when he looked as serious and believable as I’ve ever seen him. When he kept chanting, “I HATE to lose”. He needed adversity and I hope he’s grown because of it.
For me, I don’t think it’s the number of wins as much as HOW they look in those wins and losses. This team can not seem to put together a complete game offensively or defensively all season. It’s not because of talent (with exception of in the trenches, especially on the OL). My biggest question is this…is there ONE coach who seems to have done his job well consistently? The offensive line is just that. The D-Line rarely gets to the QB. The secondary gets lit up like they’re radioactive. The receivers have been inconsistent. I don’t remember hearing about one solid game plan on either side of the ball. This is their second season together. Mike Smith is not a young coach. Neither is Koetter. This is not their first rodeo.
I also think this hinges largely on how the Glazers feel about Licht and the job he’s done. If they want him gone, the coaches are gone too. Any new GM will want to bring in his own staff. Licht has done some things I like, with some solid picks. I also like how he will cut bait when he’s made a mistake. I do appreciate that. But, he seems to have had a blind spot for the trenches. I understood his reasoning for Aguayo; I didn’t agree with it, but I saw his point. Our kicking game has been awful. Solving that issue was needed, but not at that price. But, the linemen on both side of the ball are in the mix for every play. Putting a kicker above that was simply not prioritizing correctly.
I’m not sold on Gruden. Though, I do see the points made in the last Fab Five about how Gruden could possibly turn things around. I agree. Lovie was out of the game for one year. But, philosophically, it was much more. Gruden has been involved with draft picks, film study, current trends of the game, etc. What remains to be seen is how he would change his former offensive system. I’m sure the Glazers will be figuring that out soon, if they haven’t already (tampering rules be damned).
Being in Washington state, I couldn’t watch the Miami game. I was following the game feed on my iPhone instead. I was not happy. Large portions of the game were simply embarrassing on both sides of the ball. Seemingly every game there is at least one half, if not three quarters, where we look completely out of our league on one side of the ball, at least. Matt Moore is a solid backup. He’s not 282 yards in one half solid. Case Keenum is a solid, winning QB this year. But, did he even break a sweat in the Viking game against us? God help us against ATL on Sunday. Look what they did IN Seattle. Brett Hundley is probably looking forward to our visit in two weeks. So is every group of opposing LBs and defensive linemen.
I’m not getting a fear vibe off our players. Schiano had that, but little respect. I feel Gruden would bring both, or whoever the Glazers choose instead. But, this 2-3 year lather, rinse, dump, repeat carousel is ridiculous. Why do they even both giving new Buc coaches five year deals?
Since the Viking game, I haven’t been excited for game day. I’ve been nervous and apprehensive. No lead is safe (as rare as they are, anyway). We are as predictable as Trump with our offense. I’m not seeing adjustments that show me Koetter, et al have a cohesive plan. They seem to be running in place.
As handy as treadmills are, there’s a reason most people hate them…after all the sweat and effort, we end up right back where we started.
Washington state? Where at? I’m in Kirkland with Sunday Ticket!
I appreciate the work you writers put into every piece here on PR, so I want to make it clear – I intend no disrespect here when I say this.
This entire approach to answering the question of Koetter’s future is backwards and misses the point. Like, in the biggest way, asking how many wins we need (in what is almost certainly a lost season) to save Koetter’s job fails miserably to approach the entire idea of team building in a way that makes sense.
When a team signs a player to a free agent contract, why do they do it? Because of the stats he’s put up in the past? Or because of the stats they think he’ll put up moving forward? Bad teams get caught up giving hefty contracts to players that are not likely to be successful in the FUTURE….which is really all that matters at all, for their purposes.
Letting meaningless wins this year dictate the direction of this franchise moving forward would be a horrible mistake. There are plenty of questions that DO matter to deciding whether or not Koetter should stay. Is he able and willing (no, check that….is he EAGER) to adjust his offense to make things easier on his quarterback? Is he capable of utilizing his players in ways that put them in the best positions to succeed? Is it in him to work with his assistants on the defensive side of the ball to figure out the changes that need to be made in personnel and design?
So far, the answers to all of these questions have been resounding “NO”s. If, over the final month and a half, he gives me reason to think that those answers are changing, then we can start to seriously consider keeping him. But as of right now, Koetter’s approach to offensive football has absolutely, without question held this team back in a huge way. On a team with perhaps the deepest, most diverse, and deadliest group of offensive skill players in the entire league, things always look so freaking hard for us on that side of the ball. Routes are not set up to easily complement one another. The QB typically doesn’t even have a hot read available to counter a blitz, which is brutal since so much of the offense is comprised of slow developing downfield routes. We stubbornly run the ball in very predictable moments even when it’s painfully obvious that this offensive line isn’t capable of producing an effective running game. There are no rhythm throws to get our passers comfortable early. DeSean Jackson, one of the most destructive YAC weapons in the league, is rarely deployed on slants, drags, or other routes that get the ball into his hands while moving in space. I like the idea of an offense that strives to push the ball down the field, but this offensive design borders on manic.
While other teams around the league are giving their talented young QBs plenty of packaged reads and simple options that produce easy looks, we have continued to force Jameis to relentlessly push the ball down the field, really no matter what the defense is doing. This nonsense is unacceptable. If it’s the way it’s always going to be, then Koetter fails the only question that matters – is he a good coach that helps his players and team succeed consistently? Are we likely to win a championship with his coaching being a significant part of that accomplishment?
If the Glazers don’t think that the answers to those types of questions are “yes”, then what the heck are we talking about? Who cares whether he finished with 6 wins or 9 wins this year? How in the world does that matter, AT ALL, while we move into the future for this team?
Don’t miss the point. All that matters is the future. There are likely to be several VERY intriguing coaching candidates available this offseason. Unless Koetter shows things he has yet to show, I really don’t care how many wins we finish with. I’ll judge him on what HE does. On what he’s likely to do in the future.
toofamiliar – your analysis is correct. But you assume too much if you believe that the baby Glazers share your understanding. If they did, they would not have done what they’ve done ever since Malcolm Glazer got sidelined with a stroke a decade ago.
I think they look at pretty much just the bottom line, in terms of Ws vs. Ls, and they especially look at the last month of a disappointing season. If both looks are negative, then they act. That’s been their modus operandi since the end of Gruden’s last season as head coach.
Lots of good comments.
We all want the same thing from our football team. We want a team that competes for the play-offs every season. We want a team that every so often competes for the championship. We want consistency. We want tradition. We want passion. We want excitement. We want a loyal fan base. We want to be proud of our team. That’s what the folks get in places like Green Bay, New England and my hometown Pittsburgh and we’re all jealous. Is that too much to ask? Here in Bucville we often have just hoped we wouldn’t be the worst team.
I like Jason Licht and his “Meathead” view of himself as a common man. I know he’s had a few misses on F/A’s and the Draft, but they all do. I do think sufficient talent is on the roster to be a lot better than what we are getting on the field.
Like most, I was more hopeful than confident that Dirk Koetter and Mike Smith would be a duo like Gruden and Kiffin to bring the team back to respectability. What I don’t like is that Dirk has gravitated to doing what he likes to do (offensive play caller) rather than what he needs to do……….run the team from a macro level. Some may be capable of that duel role, but Dirk just doesn’t get the results we reasonably expect.
The first half of this season has been similar to the first half of last season. A team floundering and looking lost. Last season a few fortunate defensive plays ignited the team to the point it looked better than it really was. “Fools gold” someone said. Once again, the team has mustered two wins, albeit nothing resembling dominance. That has allowed them to poke their collective heads above the toilet rim.
Can history repeat itself? If it does, will that mean Koetter and Smith survive and return to a still apathetic, ho-hum fan base. Would winning a few more games be a second wind or their last gasp?
Glazers need to refrain from doing what they hope will work (Morris, Schiano, Lovie & Koetter) and like Daddy Malcom, do what we know will work.
I think that if the Glazers decide to fire Koetter, they will also fire Licht. Remember, it was Licht who was handed the keys, after Lovie Smith was shown the door, and told to hire a head coach who would finally get the Bucs back to respectability. If Koetter’s hire is viewed as a failure by the end of this season, that’s a millstone around Licht’s neck that he may not survive. At best he would not get extended, and it’s likely that the baby Glazers would snatch the head coaching hire away from Licht and make the hire themselves.
And that last point is what leads many to believe that they’ve already decided on Jon Gruden. They know him better than any other coach in the league, he’s immediately available, he won’t cost them anything to acquire (as in the first hiring back in 2002).
I believe that the Glazers very likely believe that Jon Gruden is a bona fide “quarterback whisperer” who could wring the most out of their no. 1 draft pick quarterback, in the last season of his rookie contract, and then either confirm or deny he’s the horse to ride on via a new contract. That seems like an extremely critical decision point.
It is also completely apparent that the Koetter/Moncken duo is not making headway with Jameis Winston (and having nothing to do with his recent shoulder injury).
if the glazers cut a deal with gruden secretly before seasons end then koetter is gone…if nothing is secretly etched in stone with gruden, and koetter doesn’t lose double digits, he shall return for a final 3rd season…however, if he finishes a stellar 9-7…by going say 7-1 in the second half, i think he is gone anyway if gruden and the glazers secretly shake hands on a deal…the glazers have learned a lesson since the gruden curse…and they are ready to fix it with the little chuckaneer…
and they know if they slack on grabbing jon boy back, he is going to bounce to another team right quick…
if gruden is officially available, everyone is gone…remember what they traded for gruden last time?…all they have to do is dump a staff and pay the man???…sounds fairly simple to me…gru wants jameis…and i would even bring back fitz for a one year contract if i’m chucky…
koetter and crew are basically gone if chucko says yes…
now did jameis grab p+ssy or not…gotta ask trump!!!
adam from ny
There’s no magic number of wins that should save Dirk, it should be how the team plays and I think we all know what the problems will be against better teams. Now if we make the playoffs then obviously he stays but barely winning some bad teams shouldn’t save his job. Dirk’s biggest impact came as OC not HC. I look at my teams very simple, could we achieve this result with another HC and my answer is yes. Dirk did not have the guys ready to play early in the year, our soft camp set us back as other teams came out ready but we were still working through personnel and what type of defense we wanted to be ran. I’ll leave everyone with this, Dak Prescott has looked terribly inconsistent since his starting LT went down and the run game has been less effective. The Saints have been a high powered offense THAT MISSED THE PLAYOFFS for the last few seasons until they fixed their defense and run game. We have put too much on our QB and I think that is why this process has not worked how some have expected. We were so busy giving him weapons to throw the ball around to but neglected the ways a good football team is built. I’d sit Jameis the rest of the year and not play him another snap until Warhop and Licht are out the door. Protecting the QB and getting a productive run game will be the key to this team getting over the hump. Dirk has not been able to get the run game going or produce a quality offense which is why he was brought here, let him go because who needs an offensive coach with a shitty offense.
Did anyone watch the Seahawks/Falcons game last night? No way this team wins in Atlanta based off what I saw from Atlanta and that was a road game for them. Also no way we win another 15-10 game. Based on what I saw, Matt Ryan is going to shred our secondary.
It is hard to imagine this team winning half of the games left on the schedule.
With the exception of G Bay the other teams have number 1 a Good QB and really good defensive lines.
Going to Atlanta even though the stats show that teams that win on Monday night 80% lose the next game so we will see.
So as far as the coaching staff goes IMO does not look good for them. One thing I have seen since the beginning in 76 is this seems to be a coaching graveyard. Not one coach has left here and been a winning Head Coach with any other team!
Not one coach has left here and had a winning record with another team? How about Mike Tomlin, Jim Caldwell, Joe Gibbs and Dennis Green? Not only did they all have winning records, half of them won Super Bowls!
You missed a few too, Randy..
Those who went on to be successful head coaches after leaving the Bucs include Jay Gruden, Jim Caldwell, Lovie Smith (at the Bears, anyway, including a Super Bowl championship), and Mike Mularkey.
Other former Bucs assistants also went on to successful assistants, including Rod Marinelli, Kyle Shanahan (now getting a start at the 49ers, success there TBD), and Mike Shula.
Naplesfan, yes I should have included Lovie. However, he stated “winning HC”, so I didn’t include your other three, as they have a overall losing record as a HC. I agree with your assistants, in addition to other ones that there have been.
I included them because despite overall losing records (Gruden, anyway), their teams have been winning the last several years. Usually a new coach begins because the team he hired onto was very bad, and the first couple of years really don’t reflect their potential. That’s certainly true of Jay Gruden and Jim Caldwell and Mike Mularkey. They may not win Super Bowls any time soon, but they’re not disasters.
A HEAD COACH! I guess I should have explained my comment better. Yes some assistant coaches have gone on to be very good head coaches but only one HEAD COACH has and that was Dungy. I guess some people missed the point in 41 years and so many head coaches I can’t remember them all. But thanks for correcting me.
I said it when we hired Koetter he is not an NFL Head Coach I knew him well from his days out here at ASU, he is not head coaching material offensive coordinator is best suited for him. Hopefully we bring my namesake Gruden back in the fold this team needs a spark and a fire lit in their butts.
jongruden; yes you did and I give you full credit.
Got to give you props so far my desert dwelling friend. Six more chances to solidify it one way or the other.
I understand that Licht has increased the talent at some of the skill positions. He has hit on some LB’s, the Marpet pick and signed Brate. But we all know this game is won and lost in the trenches and outside of McCoy and Marpet, the talent level on the lines is lacking. The plan for running back turned out to be bad. The plan for safety and cornerback is unsettled. Now with this new allegation about JW, quarterback seems less settled. Looking at all of that I would not necessarily assume that Licht should remain the GM.
Dont be a fool and let Chicago, Dallas, Oakland or others get Gruden when you can get him. You have to think big picture. This division has 3 Superbowl Coaches. Its starting to look possible it could be a 3rd straight year the NFC South is in the Superbowl. It doesnt matter how many games Koetter wins. He will never out coach this division. He gets beat every week on offense and defense and its going to get bad the last 6 weeks. This team has no shot against Atlanta. No way they are losing to us Sunday. Koetter and Licht are as good as gone. The kicking thing is enough to get rid of Koetter much less all the other mistakes.
I meant get rid of Licht for the kicking thing
How soon they forget. John Gruden had a record of 57-55 as Tampa Coach. He was hated by his players and had a reputation for dishonesty and disloyalty. Jay Gruden is 25-32. Dirk Koetter is 13-13. Tony Dungy finished his first two years 16-16 and was 24-24 at the end of his third year. With the exception of Gruden, who took over a very seasoned team, no Tampa Bay head coach has ever been 13-13 at the end of his first 26 games. Raheem Morris was 13-19 at the end of his first two years and he got a third year. In my view, the main reason so many fans want Koetter out is because the team was overhyped. Same with Licht. In the seasons of 2003 and 2005, Gruden was a combined 12-20 BUT HE WAS NOT FIRED. tHE NEXT SEASON HE WENT 11-5!
Have we forgotten what a rotten roster we had in 2013-14 and how much better it is now (though it’s got a ways to go). Have you forgotten that our wide receivers were Tiquan Underwood, David Boston, Derek Hagan, Louis Murphy, and an aging Vincent Jackson (who had already lost a step). Our quarterbacks were Josh Freeman, Mike Glennon, and Dan Orlovsky; our tight ends were Zach Miller and Tim Wright and aside from LaVonte David we had Mason Foster, Dekoda Watson, and Johnathan Cassilas. Yes, we had Adrian Clayborn and Gerald McCoy but Clayborn was mediocre and we had Zuttah and Penn but we had Ted Larsen at Center and little else. Does anyone doubt that this roster is better? No, we’re not a playoff team yet, but we have much more talent. Licht has had way more hits than misses. He took over a roster that was s—t and given us hope. But Rome wasn’t built in a day or a season.
Do you really think we had the talent to beat Minnesota? or New England? New Orleans? Carolina? These are all playoff teams and anyone of them could end up in the Super Bowl. We were in position to beat Buffalo but didn’t and we played our worst game against Arizona, though we did show some life in the second half–we didn’t just call it a day. We’ve beaten the teams we were supposed to beat–the jets, giants, bears, and dolphins, though two of them had better records than us at the time we played them. We’re now playing with a journeyman quarterback, two defensive ends that were unlikely even to be on the roster, etc., etc. and a quarterback nobody else wanted. And you want to make beating Atlanta in Atlanta the game on which we decide whether to retain our coach and GM? This is a hatchet job. Every team we’re playing the rest of the season has a better record than us. So why all the despair. It’s simple. We were led to believe that this was our year. But so did Oakland and Tennessee. Welcome to the NFL.
Ridiculous. Jay Gruden is 25-32. His best year was 9-7. He is 4-6 in his 4th year.
Mike Mularkey is awful. He is 33-50 and is coaching in the worst division in the NFL.
Ridiculous. The old meme that Gruden was hated by his players is simply not true for most of them. There were a few whiners like Keyshawn Johnson who hated Gruden because Gruden saw through his act. The good ones didn’t hate him, and the fact that other popular players were let go was not Gruden’s fault but due to horrible salary cap management by the GMs.
He has best record of any head coach at the Bucs – the only one over .500, the only Super Bowl Championship, and the only Bucs coach with three Division Championships and only Gruden and Dungy achieved four winning seasons in their tenure as head coaches.
The Bucs had the chance to sign elite offensive linemen in the 2017 free agency period. They had the chance to draft elite offensive linemen in the 2017 draft. They should have done both, and they failed to do either. That looks like Licht’s job to me, and he blew it.
I don’t care about turnover. Dirk has had 3 years of Jameis and not only has he not improved him, but he hasn’t recognized how to help him with scheming. Lack of run game, to be blamed on RBs and O line doesn’t help but it isn’t an excuse.
No one complained about firing Lovie after a brief stint and that is because it was obvious the team sucked under him. Well… we suck again, with much more talent than Lovie had. Dirk should have already given up playcalling, he cannot do both.
I was a supporter of this staff entering the season. A year of continuity, new offensive weapons and a D that had played well 2nd half of ’16. I was wrong. They have disappointed with their gameplanning and having these men ready to play and execute for a full 60.
I am sure they feel like I do right now, that this team needs 2 impact guys on each line and an explosive RB to beat anyone but they haven’t gotten this group to play solid consistency ball so why should they be trusted to do it with a couple more pieces. The blowouts are inexcusable. Sure happens to every team, even good ones, but not this often.
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