I didnt see LVD on no horseback around RayJay?
He’ll ride his up to the stage in Canton.
Unlike your boy…
I didnt see LVD on no horseback around RayJay?
He’ll ride his up to the stage in Canton.
Unlike your boy…
my boy . . . or just reality?
I am no fan of White, as I have posted many times. I am okay though with acknowledging the reality of his role in 2020. He's no less an asshole for it. Maybe bigger.
I am also okay with others disagreeing
Unless/until Licht says I am wrong, then I take it all back ;-)
If you just watch the transition of the team from 2020 to 2025 you should see a team that has been dragged further down each year by the…
…the ineptitude of the HC.
Who you once said had the #7 defense in scoring. . . "the only stat that mattered." Those were the days!
Multiple things can be true at once. Something tells me the defensive talent in 2025 wasn't quite up to the defensive talent in 2020, but then again we had the "worst MLB in football" in 2020 so maybe not. Either way though, the disparity in talent does not absolve Bowles of anything, but it might make some wonder about the Glazers and Licht.
He was NOT even the best LB’er on the field that game
Remember when Peter King had to defend picking Tom Brady as MVP of the Super Bowl?
"“So I voted for Tom Brady for Super Bowl MVP, and on Twitter and in emails, I got the general reaction of: The defense won the game,” King wrote. “Why Brady? A valid point, and if someone picked Devin White or Shaq Barrett or one of the other defensive linemen, I wouldn’t have thought it was a bad pick. A minute into the fourth quarter, I thought I’d vote for Barrett, who by that time had a sack and four knockdowns/pressures—and two of those would have been sacks if not for Patrick Mahomes’ acrobatics. I could have split my vote among two defenders, and I thought of a White/Barrett vote. With Leonard Fournette having a 135-yard game and the insurance TD, I considered him; but it was 21-6 at halftime, and Fournette hadn’t been a huge factor."
;-)
If you think White was the best LB on the field during that SB win, then you clearly didn’t watch the game.
Sort of like thinking he was "the worst LB in the NFL?"
somewhere in between lies the truth
Not sure how you can say that if you understand a team environment. When White is drafted 5th overall he is IMMEDIATELY the de facto leader of the defense. Just like people expect from Bain. Deserved or otherwise the draft status certainly matters.
I don't disagree completely which is why Arians drafted White with a top five pick along with Licht's blessing to make a culture change on defense in terms of attitude. The problem is White did not have the mental capability to grind for more to improve as a player despite playing next to peak LVD. LVD was clearly the leader of the defense along with Suh, Shaq and JPP.
Bain is different because he is like Sapp, Brooks and Lynch were in their prime. They all would show up to take care of business in a suit and tie arriving to the stadium, and unleash everything they had on the field. I would throw in Barber too as well as Quarles.
Dennis might have emerged to play well BUT he was a 2024 split time LB who was as much elevated out of necessity as anything else, basically a rookie with ZERO credentials (draft status) . A guy like Reddick is fighting with Vea, lol he doesn't give two shits about anything Dennis would say to him. It would take multipole season of Dennis emerging to be a player like LVD before any vet was listening to him.
I am not sure I would say necessity because the Bucs could have signed another ILB for vet min to start over Dennis or benched Dennis for the rest of the seasno. The team and Bucs FO wanted to see what they had in Dennis but remember it was Caldwell first year back. And he probably saw enough and wants to go in a different direction at ILB now that he is back for year 2 of his second stint.
Dennis and Nick Jackson are still in the mix and they even brought back Bullock despite his history so they are still looking to see what they have in these young guys.
White did well in the super bowl year but after that was ass. He was drafted for his athletic ability but that only gets you by for so long in this league. Athletic ability can help you get by in certain areas of the game but if you don't have it between the ears as a mlb you won't last long. Which was the case with white.
Arians drafted White with a top five pick along with Licht's blessing to make a culture change on defense in terms of attitude.
The problem is White did not have the mental capability to grind for more to improve as a player
yes completely agree with both comments
I specified that White was the EMOTIONAL leader, not the experienced tactical leader.
so they are still looking to see what they have in these young guys.
yes agreed that is what I was saying was the opposite of win now. Seeing what we have in Dennis is seeing what you have in a player, not making him compete against outside talent or even replacing him with better because youre trying to win it all
White did well in the super bowl year but after that was ass. He was drafted for his athletic ability but that only gets you by for so long in this league. Athletic ability can help you get by in certain areas of the game but if you don't have it between the ears as a mlb you won't last long. Which was the case with white.
Agreed. And just taking Arians at his word they thought White was some lover of football and he was the opposite.
White did well in the super bowl year but after that was ass. He was drafted for his athletic ability but that only gets you by for so long in this league. Athletic ability can help you get by in certain areas of the game but if you don't have it between the ears as a mlb you won't last long. Which was the case with white.
Agreed. And just taking Arians at his word they thought White was some lover of football and he was the opposite.
It's a shame because he was 5 overall. We won a super bowl so it's not the end of the world but if we really hit on that pick not a stretch to say we'd have another good player on this team. Which we could always use more of. Top 5 and not have that is disappointing to say the least.
i mean if we are being honest with ourselves, Licht has missed on more first round picks then hit
2014 - Evans - Home Run
2015 - Winston - Miss
2016 - Hargreaves - Disastrous
2017 - Howard - Disastrous
2018 - Vea - Home Run
2019 - White - Miss
2020 - Wirfs - Home Run
2021 - JTR - Disastrous
2022 - No Pick
2023 - Kancey - would suggest trending towards Miss but TBD
2024 - Barton - TBD
2025 - Edbuka - TBD
2026 - Bain Jr - TBD
but if we really hit on that pick n
yes that is precisely what makes it really bad. The #5 overall pick should be a cornerstone of the team for many years.
i mean if we are being honest with ourselves, Licht has missed on more first round picks then hit
2014 - Evans - Home Run
2015 - Winston - Miss
2016 - Hargreaves - Disastrous
2017 - Howard - Disastrous
2018 - Vea - Home Run
2019 - White - Miss
2020 - Wirfs - Home Run
2021 - JTR - Disastrous
2022 - No Pick
2023 - Kancey - would suggest trending towards Miss but TBD
2024 - Barton - TBD
2025 - Edbuka - TBD
2026 - Bain Jr - TBD
I would guess that list is similar to many "successful" GMs especially when you give it context .
On the context part . ..
1) everyone should agree hes not skipping the QB in 2015 and both options were not great. (At a minimum, owners 100% behind that pick.)
2) White was a long term miss, but a Super Bowl too. (Arians pick so probably lots of internal support for Licht)
3) JTR a "run it back" pick (Sort of a free pass because of Brady and what they were trying to do. Owners probably 100%)
So, inside OBP the Glazers are probably loaded with confidence in Licht even at this moment of transition.
Would be interesting to look at the "best" long term GMs (not many?) and compare because one argument for Licht is that he has drafted two HOFers. How does that compare?
i mean if we are being honest with ourselves, Licht has missed on more first round picks then hit
2014 - Evans - Home Run
2015 - Winston - Miss
2016 - Hargreaves - Disastrous
2017 - Howard - Disastrous
2018 - Vea - Home Run
2019 - White - Miss
2020 - Wirfs - Home Run
2021 - JTR - Disastrous
2022 - No Pick
2023 - Kancey - would suggest trending towards Miss but TBD
2024 - Barton - TBD
2025 - Edbuka - TBD
2026 - Bain Jr - TBD
I would guess that list is similar to many "successful" GMs especially when you give it context .
On the context part . ..
1) everyone should agree hes not skipping the QB in 2015 and both options were not great. (At a minimum, owners 100% behind that pick.)
2) White was a long term miss, but a Super Bowl too. (Arians pick so probably lots of internal support for Licht)
3) JTR a "run it back" pick (Sort of a free pass because of Brady and what they were trying to do. Owners probably 100%)
So, inside OBP the Glazers are probably loaded with confidence in Licht even at this moment of transition.
Would be interesting to look at the "best" long term GMs (not many?) and compare because one argument for Licht is that he has drafted two HOFers. How does that compare?
im not following why he’s get a pass for JTR. That draft was brutal and we knew it right away
in terms of top GMs, I’d rank Licht just outside the top 10, so maybe top 15
Not sure I’d be able to put him ahead of any of these other guys
- Howie Roseman (Eagles)
- Brett Veach (Chiefs)
- Eric DeCosta (Ravens)
- Brad Holmes (Lions)
- Brandon Beane (Bills)
- Les Snead (Rams)
- John Schneider (Seahawks)
- Brian Gutekunst (Packers)
- John Lynch (49ers)
- Omar Khan (Steelers)
2022 - No Pick
I think it's fair to count Logan Hall here. While he wasn't technically a first round pick, he was their first pick in the draft. They traded out of the 27th spot with Jacksonville, with George Karlaftis on the board. That's a clear miss.
im not following why he’s get a pass for JTR. That draft was brutal and we knew it right away
I am not sure it's a pass but it's 100% a need pick and an immediate need pick at that. They need an edge guy for worries about JPP so they stretched.
hes the GM so on him but I woukd think inside OBP they see that as giving the coaches what they want to run it back. So sort of the Vernon H pick on steroids
