Whatever the plan is we're trying to win games. "Cap discipline" is a means to an end, and that end is winning. If you have cap discipline and your team sucks then have you done a good job? The Bucs have to sign Baker and figure out the rest after that. They should have done it this offseason and it will only cost more next offseason. To have good cap discipline you have to have a Plan B don't you? What's the Bucs Plan B if they let Baker walk? ÂYou seem to be presuming that they will probably get these deals done at the end of the day,
Or they will not, as a function of cap discipline.Â
Whatever the plan is we're trying to win games. "Cap discipline" is a means to an end, and that end is winning. If you have cap discipline and your team sucks then have you done a good job? The Bucs have to sign Baker and figure out the rest after that. They should have done it this offseason and it will only cost more next offseason. To have good cap discipline you have to have a Plan B don't you? What's the Bucs Plan B if they let Baker walk? ÂYou seem to be presuming that they will probably get these deals done at the end of the day,
Or they will not, as a function of cap discipline.Â
They could've kept Evans by paying him $27 million. They didn't. And they didn't offer it. That is a good thing for the team.Â
They could've kept give Vea 28 million each of the next 3 years. Is that good for the team?Â
They could've offered Mayfield $56 million per for each of the next 6 years. Probably not good for the team.Â
it's not either/or. We win or we manage the cap well. No. You manage the cap well to have the best chance to win consistently.Â
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Evans by paying him $27 million. They didn't. And they didn't offer it. That is a good thing for the team.Â
They could've kept give Vea 28 million each of the next 3 years. Is that good for the team?Â
They could've offered Mayfield $56 million per for each of the next 6 years. Probably not good for the team.Â
it's not either/or. We win or we manage the cap well. No. You manage the cap well to have the best chance to win consistently.Â
Vea: I did a little negotiating with Copilot and Google and here's the contract range for Vea considering the exploding DT market, Vea's age, snap percentage and the fact the Bucs have leverage. Â
3 years, $78M total AAV: $26M Guaranteed: $55M Length: 3 years Structure: front‑loaded guarantees, lighter Year 3 commitment.
It sucks but if that's the market for him. Either pay him or trade him. He'll sit out until Week 10 if he has to. The money he'd be giving up this year is chump change compared to the deal he's going to score next year as a free agent. Â
Mayfield:Â Google goes a little higher than Copilot:
A realistic compromise that actually satisfies Mayfield's demand for security would look like a 3-year, $150 million contract ($50M AAV) with $130 million to $140 million practically guaranteed.
That's the market. Pay him, trade him or tag him for $50 mil. Sorry to say trade Baker right now if you don't intend to pay that market rate. Then at least you can get back some draft capital and have a hope of drafting your QB of the future. The Free Agent crop next year is Murray, Tua, Watson, Fields, Brissett, Geno, Rodgers... and Mayfield. Enjoy that search. And tagging Mayfield and losing him after 2027? Then you have no good plan for his replacement. To have cap discipline you have to have a Plan B if Plan A doesn't work out. What's the Plan B? It has to get getting draft capital because it can't be signing another FA QB. Â
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Evans by paying him $27 million. They didn't. And they didn't offer it. That is a good thing for the team.Â
They could've kept give Vea 28 million each of the next 3 years. Is that good for the team?Â
They could've offered Mayfield $56 million per for each of the next 6 years. Probably not good for the team.Â
it's not either/or. We win or we manage the cap well. No. You manage the cap well to have the best chance to win consistently.Â
Vea: I did a little negotiating with Copilot and Google and here's the contract range for Vea considering the exploding DT market, Vea's age, snap percentage and the fact the Bucs have leverage. Â
3 years, $78M total AAV: $26M Guaranteed: $55M Length: 3 years Structure: front‑loaded guarantees, lighter Year 3 commitment.
It sucks but if that's the market for him. Either pay him or trade him. He'll sit out until Week 10 if he has to. The money he'd be giving up this year is chump change compared to the deal he's going to score next year as a free agent. Â
Mayfield:Â Google goes a little higher than Copilot:
A realistic compromise that actually satisfies Mayfield's demand for security would look like a 3-year, $150 million contract ($50M AAV) with $130 million to $140 million practically guaranteed.
That's the market. Pay him, trade him or tag him for $50 mil. Sorry to say trade Baker right now if you don't intend to pay that market rate. Then at least you can get back some draft capital and have a hope of drafting your QB of the future. The Free Agent crop next year is Murray, Tua, Watson, Fields, Brissett, Geno, Rodgers... and Mayfield. Enjoy that search. And tagging Mayfield and losing him after 2027? Then you have no good plan for his replacement. To have cap discipline you have to have a Plan B if Plan A doesn't work out. What's the Plan B? It has to get getting draft capital because it can't be signing another FA QB. Â
This is the problem.
Licht was willing to overpay for Evans but for Vea and Mayfield he is playing hardball. I mean lets look at it this way...if you don't pay Vea who is going to be paid instead? Kancey? That is a joke because he can't stay healthy and when he is healthy it is questionable if he can be a functional player for 17 games because his stamina has never been tested at the NFL level. Diaby? sure but with the way Bowles blitzes so much and drops OLB in coverage why overpay for Diaby to retain his services? With that cap space you are better off getting a young LB to play opposite of Trotter Jr in space or another defensive tackle if you intend to let Vea and Kancey walk. You still have Bain and Walker under contract so the Bucs have options.
As for Mayfield the Bucs only option other than Mayfield is a first round rookie contract in 2027 which allows the team to use that extra cap space on a new starter on offense and defense.
A lot has already been said about I agree with and don't need to say too much but I'll say this.
A lot of it has to do with the overall general direction of the team. Let's be honest last year was awful in every way how it ended. They really have to work themselves into a positive direction after that. No one would have blamed the bucs if cut ties with a lot of people this past off-season than they did. Just from an overall understanding that this group isn't it.
Definitely would not have been upset with a huge shuffle of the overall team but it feels like the team may go that direction later if it's more of the same this year. Next year could easily see that and again no buc fan would blame them for doing so. They just maybe should have already done this by now.Â
Licht was willing to overpay for Evans but for Vea and Mayfield he is playing hardball.
Honestly, I wonder where you guys come up with this stuff sometimes?
Licht did not over pay for Evans? Overpaying would have been $27 million, for example, solely to keep him from leaving.
Licht is not playing hardball with Vea, he's trying to compromise with him at something that works for Vea but that also works for the team. THAT MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE. It happens.
And since when is $140 million guaranteed "hardball" for a QB? Again, Mayfield is the one who supposedly stopped the negotiations. Thats not in the Bucs.
This stuff isnt unusual or unique to the Bucs. They paid Evans big annual salaries, until they didnt. The extended Vea when he was roughly the age of the recent extended guys, etc. They gave. Mayfield a good 3 year contract.
Brings me back to your cap discipline and what is Plan B? Of course by definition no Plan B is as good as Plan A, but it's a workable alternative in case Plan A falls through. If you want cap discipline you have to have alternatives. The Bucs knew this holdout or hold-in was probably coming for Vea. Now they appear to be up a creek. They don't seem to have anticipated the outcome. What's the Plan B to move on from Vita Vea? Baker Mayfield. What's Plan B? Geno Smith? We knew the Baker contract might be pushed to 2027. That's not a total surprise. But what are their options then? They're stuck paying Baker even more than they would have this offseason, because there's no apparent alternative. When there's no logical Plan B the pressure reverts back to Plan A and in this case that means paying the piper for Vea and Baker. ÂLicht was willing to overpay for Evans but for Vea and Mayfield he is playing hardball.
Honestly, I wonder where you guys come up with this stuff sometimes?
Licht did not over pay for Evans? Overpaying would have been $27 million, for example, solely to keep him from leaving.
Licht is not playing hardball with Vea, he's trying to compromise with him at something that works for Vea but that also works for the team. THAT MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE. It happens.
And since when is $140 million guaranteed "hardball" for a QB? Again, Mayfield is the one who supposedly stopped the negotiations. Thats not in the Bucs.
This stuff isnt unusual or unique to the Bucs. They paid Evans big annual salaries, until they didnt. The extended Vea when he was roughly the age of the recent extended guys, etc. They gave. Mayfield a good 3 year contract.
The Bucs knew this holdout or hold-in was probably coming for Vea. Now they appear to be up a creek. They don't seem to have anticipated the outcome. What's the Plan B to move on from Vita Vea?Â
Why are they up a creek?Â
The current Vea situation has multiple favorable outcomes and very few negative out comes, right? They may compromise. They may trade him. The only truly negative out come would be he just refuses to play, but that seems unlikely.
You seem to be saying NOT having everyone signed now = bad mgmt, but it can also be good mgmt, right? It probably would NOT have been good to pay Evans $27 million, just like it may not be good to give Vea a three year extension.
It can be the right move for a team to move on from a player.
I've always been a fan of Licht, but things are not going well right now. I suppose a 2nd rounder for Vea is fair, but where does that leave this years team? aren't we trying to win?The Bucs knew this holdout or hold-in was probably coming for Vea. Now they appear to be up a creek. They don't seem to have anticipated the outcome. What's the Plan B to move on from Vita Vea?Â
Why are they up a creek?Â
The current Vea situation has multiple favorable outcomes and very few negative out comes, right? They may compromise. They may trade him. The only truly negative out come would be he just refuses to play, but that seems unlikely.
You seem to be saying NOT having everyone signed now = bad mgmt, but it can also be good mgmt, right? It probably would NOT have been good to pay Evans $27 million, just like it may not be good to give Vea a three year extension.
It can be the right move for a team to move on from a player.
Brings me back to your cap discipline and what is Plan B? Of course by definition no Plan B is as good as Plan A, but it's a workable alternative in case Plan A falls through. If you want cap discipline you have to have alternatives. The Bucs knew this holdout or hold-in was probably coming for Vea. Now they appear to be up a creek. They don't seem to have anticipated the outcome. What's the Plan B to move on from Vita Vea? Baker Mayfield. What's Plan B? Geno Smith? We knew the Baker contract might be pushed to 2027. That's not a total surprise. But what are their options then? They're stuck paying Baker even more than they would have this offseason, because there's no apparent alternative. When there's no logical Plan B the pressure reverts back to Plan A and in this case that means paying the piper for Vea and Baker. ÂLicht was willing to overpay for Evans but for Vea and Mayfield he is playing hardball.
Honestly, I wonder where you guys come up with this stuff sometimes?
Licht did not over pay for Evans? Overpaying would have been $27 million, for example, solely to keep him from leaving.
Licht is not playing hardball with Vea, he's trying to compromise with him at something that works for Vea but that also works for the team. THAT MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE. It happens.
And since when is $140 million guaranteed "hardball" for a QB? Again, Mayfield is the one who supposedly stopped the negotiations. Thats not in the Bucs.
This stuff isnt unusual or unique to the Bucs. They paid Evans big annual salaries, until they didnt. The extended Vea when he was roughly the age of the recent extended guys, etc. They gave. Mayfield a good 3 year contract.
This is why there are reports that Licht and Vea's agent have had talks so it is an evolving situation.
Brings me back to your cap discipline and what is Plan B? Of course by definition no Plan B is as good as Plan A, but it's a workable alternative in case Plan A falls through. If you want cap discipline you have to have alternatives. The Bucs knew this holdout or hold-in was probably coming for Vea. Now they appear to be up a creek. They don't seem to have anticipated the outcome. What's the Plan B to move on from Vita Vea? Baker Mayfield. What's Plan B? Geno Smith? We knew the Baker contract might be pushed to 2027. That's not a total surprise. But what are their options then? They're stuck paying Baker even more than they would have this offseason, because there's no apparent alternative. When there's no logical Plan B the pressure reverts back to Plan A and in this case that means paying the piper for Vea and Baker. ÂLicht was willing to overpay for Evans but for Vea and Mayfield he is playing hardball.
Honestly, I wonder where you guys come up with this stuff sometimes?
Licht did not over pay for Evans? Overpaying would have been $27 million, for example, solely to keep him from leaving.
Licht is not playing hardball with Vea, he's trying to compromise with him at something that works for Vea but that also works for the team. THAT MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE. It happens.
And since when is $140 million guaranteed "hardball" for a QB? Again, Mayfield is the one who supposedly stopped the negotiations. Thats not in the Bucs.
This stuff isnt unusual or unique to the Bucs. They paid Evans big annual salaries, until they didnt. The extended Vea when he was roughly the age of the recent extended guys, etc. They gave. Mayfield a good 3 year contract.
This is why there are reports that Licht and Vea's agent have had talks so it is an evolving situation.
Licht and his team have open line of communication with Vea's and Mayfield's agents. There's a bit of pubic posturing buy players, but IF there is a deal to made they are in touch. The agents want a deal to be done.
Vea claimed that there was no communication.  Who knows if that was just a ploy for Licht to pick up the phone to reach out to Vea's agent or it was legit. Either way communication has been confirmed and hopeful the holdout is resolved.
If not it could drag into the season but in that situation Vea loses a lot of leverage and the Bucs may lose out by not having Vea early in the season. So both sides have an interest to iron this out.Â
Vea claimed that there was no communication.  Who knows if that was just a ploy for Licht to pick up the phone to reach out to Vea's agent or it was legit. Either way communication has been confirmed and hopeful the holdout is resolved.
If not it could drag into the season but in that situation Vea loses a lot of leverage and the Bucs may lose out by not having Vea early in the season. So both sides have an interest to iron this out.Â
Yeah, have to take player comments with a grain of salt.
Vea's agency probably represents a half dozen or more Bucs (Otton, Goedeke, Mauch etc), so the agency is probably in touch with the Bucs FO on a weekly basis. Â
Only guessing, but I would think there is some resolution prior to the start of the season
