another point is what is this bargain you speak of?
I am not sure that even matters because my point was that the last contract stirred up about 40 plus pages of stuff on the Red Board, some "F---K Baker" some "let him test the marker" to whatever and it was all sort of a waste because you and DH pretty much hit it spot on early on, right?
Could I see 3 years 100 million. Yes but that’s absolute highest at 33.3m APY
his floor is likely the 3 year 75 million and as DH said likely looking at 3 year 90 million as ballpark
So it wasnt the BS number that Tony Pauline wrote about ($40 million) and all the Red Board angst was a waste of time because the team and Mayfield met on a deal that worked for both AND THAT FIT INTO THE MARKETPLACE
Except for the bit of uncertainty over Bowles, why would this time around be any different?
You are arguing that the last 11 months changes things in the Bucs eyes? Maybe? I dont think so, but maybe. I doubt a team looks at his success with Canales and Coen and says Grizz had nothing to do with last year? But, hey who knows?
Last I checked an NFL team needs a QB and decent ones are not that easy to find
Mayfield is under contract for the 2026 season. There is no need (or cap space) to sign Mayfield to a new contract right now.
Then your real issue is burried in the fact that you assign little to no blame to the lack of an o-line, loss of both starting WR’s and starting RB - and the subsequent injuries derived from those factual issues have no basis in your analysis?No name calling, both of could be correct. The team has made it clear that they would like to sign Baker now, Baker has indicated that would be acceptable.Too bad Brady quit on this team before he retired. Understandable, he lost his why.Mike Evans wouldn’t have left tom Brady 🤔
IMHO Mike Evans left Todd Bowles.
And then Brady left, Mike.
Apples & oranges.
I’m sure you’ll love the new Baker deal, eventually.
don't get it twisted, if Baker rebounds this season, i am all for bringing him back. The 4 year, $200M deal. Could be as high as $220M. or the extra year? gatzooks!
if he plays like he did the majority of last year though, it may just be best to clean house. After all, we'd have about 6 wins which would have us drafting in the top 10. a new offensive minded head coach and a package to trade up and land Arch Manning one might suggest?
as it sits today though, Baker needs to prove himself again...a situation he is familiar with you no doubt.
but go ahead and call me names as the Bucs brass doesn't extend him because the guy played himself out of a contract extension last season.
Could be that both Baker and the team want to see how this season plays out.
One would be more expensive than the other - but it doesn't necessarily mean we’re going to clean house.
As I’ve stated previously; I believe the Bucs know what they have in Baker, and Baker knows what is best for him and that the team has invested in building an offense around a competent, quality starter. I’d assume Baker is in negotiations, control rests with his decision on how best to move forward.
As has been pointed out, if the team begins to tank and the decision is made to blow up the strategy they have invested in the past 2 to 3 years - why would he want to commit?
Then again, why would any of us fans think the team would invest in maintaining the offense & rebuilding the defense, yet expect the organization would be strategizing to blow it all up?
It could be a scenario you have in the back of your mind, but you kinda have to be approaching it as your guiding principle. It does not appear to be at this point.
But in all of this hashing about: I have to wonder if the genesis of this is weird debate isn’t just badabing deciding Baker isn’t a competent/quality starter, and would like to lose enough games to go get a bright new shiny QB in the “very deep” 2027 draft next season - and that he may want us to consider blowing it all up in order to start over, now?
Maybe?
im a baker bro as I was called back in 2023
i also put a lot of blame on him for the demise of the team last year. Wonder if Mike Evans even said goodbye to him?
Doesn’t mean I won’t be back on the bandwagon if he plays to his standards in 2026 season but yes given how the season ended (a majority of the season) doubt has been raised whether baker is the answer or not
cool.
You prefer to blow up the team.
Which QB do you want in the 2027 draft somewhere in the middle of the 1st round that we can get frustrated over for the next 5 years?
I know you were around for the Fameous Winston years, just don’t remember if you were for drafting before you jumped off that bandwagon?
Then your real issue is burried in the fact that you assign little to no blame to the lack of an o-line, loss of both starting WR’s and starting RB - and the subsequent injuries derived from those factual issues have no basis in your analysis?No name calling, both of could be correct. The team has made it clear that they would like to sign Baker now, Baker has indicated that would be acceptable.Too bad Brady quit on this team before he retired. Understandable, he lost his why.Mike Evans wouldn’t have left tom Brady 🤔
IMHO Mike Evans left Todd Bowles.
And then Brady left, Mike.
Apples & oranges.
I’m sure you’ll love the new Baker deal, eventually.
don't get it twisted, if Baker rebounds this season, i am all for bringing him back. The 4 year, $200M deal. Could be as high as $220M. or the extra year? gatzooks!
if he plays like he did the majority of last year though, it may just be best to clean house. After all, we'd have about 6 wins which would have us drafting in the top 10. a new offensive minded head coach and a package to trade up and land Arch Manning one might suggest?
as it sits today though, Baker needs to prove himself again...a situation he is familiar with you no doubt.
but go ahead and call me names as the Bucs brass doesn't extend him because the guy played himself out of a contract extension last season.
Could be that both Baker and the team want to see how this season plays out.
One would be more expensive than the other - but it doesn't necessarily mean we’re going to clean house.
As I’ve stated previously; I believe the Bucs know what they have in Baker, and Baker knows what is best for him and that the team has invested in building an offense around a competent, quality starter. I’d assume Baker is in negotiations, control rests with his decision on how best to move forward.
As has been pointed out, if the team begins to tank and the decision is made to blow up the strategy they have invested in the past 2 to 3 years - why would he want to commit?
Then again, why would any of us fans think the team would invest in maintaining the offense & rebuilding the defense, yet expect the organization would be strategizing to blow it all up?
It could be a scenario you have in the back of your mind, but you kinda have to be approaching it as your guiding principle. It does not appear to be at this point.
But in all of this hashing about: I have to wonder if the genesis of this is weird debate isn’t just badabing deciding Baker isn’t a competent/quality starter, and would like to lose enough games to go get a bright new shiny QB in the “very deep” 2027 draft next season - and that he may want us to consider blowing it all up in order to start over, now?
Maybe?
im a baker bro as I was called back in 2023
i also put a lot of blame on him for the demise of the team last year. Wonder if Mike Evans even said goodbye to him?
Doesn’t mean I won’t be back on the bandwagon if he plays to his standards in 2026 season but yes given how the season ended (a majority of the season) doubt has been raised whether baker is the answer or not
cool.
You prefer to blow up the team.
Which QB do you want in the 2027 draft somewhere in the middle of the 1st round that we can get frustrated over for the next 5 years?
I know you were around for the Fameous Winston years, just don’t remember if you were for drafting before you jumped off that bandwagon?
baker played his worst, losing killer instinct in that 1-4 stretch to end the season. remind me were his weapons back for that stretch?
I’m all for baker potentially being the 2027 QB. No one says I want to blow it up. Luckily we have this next season to further assess
another point is what is this bargain you speak of?
I am not sure that even matters because my point was that the last contract stirred up about 40 plus pages of stuff on the Red Board, some "F---K Baker" some "let him test the marker" to whatever and it was all sort of a waste because you and DH pretty much hit it spot on early on, right?
Could I see 3 years 100 million. Yes but that’s absolute highest at 33.3m APY
his floor is likely the 3 year 75 million and as DH said likely looking at 3 year 90 million as ballpark
So it wasnt the BS number that Tony Pauline wrote about ($40 million) and all the Red Board angst was a waste of time because the team and Mayfield met on a deal that worked for both AND THAT FIT INTO THE MARKETPLACE
Except for the bit of uncertainty over Bowles, why would this time around be any different?
You are arguing that the last 11 months changes things in the Bucs eyes? Maybe? I dont think so, but maybe. I doubt a team looks at his success with Canales and Coen and says Grizz had nothing to do with last year? But, hey who knows?
Last I checked an NFL team needs a QB and decent ones are not that easy to find
time will tell. If baker gets extended before the season, then I’m wrong.
Last I checked an NFL team needs a QB and decent ones are not that easy to find
Yep. Tampa has never had a true franchise QB. Tough to find a good QB. Sign the man now.
baker played his worst, losing killer instinct in that 1-4 stretch to end the season. remind me were his weapons back for that stretch?
Remind me...was Todd Bowles a good offensive coordinator at any point in his career?
Tampa has never had a true franchise QB. Tough to find a good QB.
Well, at least we got a few ELITE years with Brady, after watching the walking clown show before him for half a decade.
Tampa has never had a true franchise QB. Tough to find a good QB.
Well, at least we got a few ELITE years with Brady, after watching the walking clown show before him for half a decade.
While I realize Brady meant way more to Tampa than he did New England. He was a rental.
Baker has many good years left.
baker played his worst, losing killer instinct in that 1-4 stretch to end the season. remind me were his weapons back for that stretch?
Remind me...was Todd Bowles a good offensive coordinator at any point in his career?
one would argue atleast post 2020, he has not been a good defensive coordinator either
baker played his worst, losing killer instinct in that 1-4 stretch to end the season. remind me were his weapons back for that stretch?
Remind me...was Todd Bowles a good offensive coordinator at any point in his career?
one would argue atleast post 2020, he has not been a good defensive coordinator either
I think the statistics back you up, but also that the team leadership disagrees and in some respects blames themselves or attributes it to part of a plan that he would "make do,' at least until last season when it all fell apart.
And I think this offseason backs that theory up because this offseason the defense has gotten MORE Bowles, not less. More stop the run first, more multiple style players like Scott, blitzing downhill LBer like Trotter.
baker played his worst, losing killer instinct in that 1-4 stretch to end the season. remind me were his weapons back for that stretch?
Remind me...was Todd Bowles a good offensive coordinator at any point in his career?
one would argue atleast post 2020, he has not been a good defensive coordinator either
I think the statistics back you up, but also that the team leadership disagrees and in some respects blames themselves or attributes it to part of a plan that he would "make do,' at least until last season when it all fell apart.
And I think this offseason backs that theory up because this offseason the defense has gotten MORE Bowles, not less. More stop the run first, more multiple style players like Scott, blitzing downhill LBer like Trotter.
ownerships commitment Bowles is not in question. Afterall, a statue will be built of this mediocre coach in due time. Said another way DH......Todd will eventually be on the wall of fame!
BUT Olaf...to your point....the guy has had a defense that has regressed in each of the last 3 years.
Sure more talent can be added to the squad. Other than the 2020,2021 squads...could you argue this 2026 defense is the best in the Bowles era talent wise? Or still lacking? Will it only be lacking when the results start to flow through?
After some initial skepticism on Mayfield, DH shows some buy-in in what Baker can mean to this team’s success under the right OC/scheme, and with the talent already assembled. His current contract scenario for Baker is likely similar to the one that will get done.another point is what is this bargain you speak of?
I am not sure that even matters because my point was that the last contract stirred up about 40 plus pages of stuff on the Red Board, some "F---K Baker" some "let him test the marker" to whatever and it was all sort of a waste because you and DH pretty much hit it spot on early on, right?
Could I see 3 years 100 million. Yes but that’s absolute highest at 33.3m APY
his floor is likely the 3 year 75 million and as DH said likely looking at 3 year 90 million as ballpark
So it wasnt the BS number that Tony Pauline wrote about ($40 million) and all the Red Board angst was a waste of time because the team and Mayfield met on a deal that worked for both AND THAT FIT INTO THE MARKETPLACE
Except for the bit of uncertainty over Bowles, why would this time around be any different?
You are arguing that the last 11 months changes things in the Bucs eyes? Maybe? I dont think so, but maybe. I doubt a team looks at his success with Canales and Coen and says Grizz had nothing to do with last year? But, hey who knows?
Last I checked an NFL team needs a QB and decent ones are not that easy to find
I mean, Sam Darnold’s Super Bowl kinda proves the “decent QB” approach. Especially considering that much of the o-line has come back from injury, and the defense seems to be better stocked with enough talent to be NFL average.
.the guy has had a defense that has regressed in each of the last 3 years.
Sure more talent can be added to the squad. Other than the 2020,2021 squads...could you argue this 2026 defense is the best in the Bowles era talent wise?
Well, the 2026 defense should be the most talented 2022 to 2026, yes, but not even close to 2020/21 and I think that is the disconnect between the "its Bowles" crowd and the Bucs leadership.
And here's a really simple way to see it.
In 2020/2021 the Bucs have one of the best VETERAN-LADEN run defenses in the league (2nd and 10th, I think). That is because the D line is Vea, Suh and Gholston and 2 great OLBs (JPP and Barrett) and TWO all Pro ILBs (29 Yrd old LVD and a just starting to slide White). Those players DOMINATE the LOS. DOMINATE. They have 39 sacks and 65 TFL. They are playing on the other side of the LOS so that why they are 2nd and 10th in run defense (YPC), respectively.
Behind them cleaning everything up is ALL WORLD 29 year old LVD 83.8 PFF coverage grade, 6th of among all LBs
In 2025, the same players in those front 7 roles create only 29 sacks (compared to 39) and 49 TFL (compared to 65 for 2020) and this time behind them to clean it all up they have FIFTH ROUND SVD (compared to 5th overall White ) and 36 yr old LVD, together arguably the WORST coverage LB group in the league. For example, 83.8 PFF LVD in 2020 is 45.1 in 2025.
So, even if 2026 talent is the best of 2022 to 2025 its still very young and worlds away from 2020/2021. Sort of tallest midget of the actual, post SB Bowles era. And even worse they may very well UNDERPERFORM their talent because Bowles may have lost some of them.
Bain isnt single-handedly changing the defensive culture as a rookie, even Sapp and Brooks could not do that.