offense had 7 drives in the game and put up a pedestrian 20 points.
Hard to score and get in rhythm when the defense allows a 17 play, 10 minute drive on the 2nd quarter.
Washington had 5 drives of over 10 plays including the final drive to win the game.
The Bucs punted twice, one of which in Washington territory.
Bucs forced zero punts, but did have 2 fourth down stops.
Washington had the ball for 11 more minutes while converting 8 third downs and 3 fourth downs.
Bottom line: the Bucs offense was average, not bad. It appears bad because Bucs defense went prevent all game which ate clock.
The Bucs defense was better than normal but at the cost of taking our offense completely out of rhythm and limiting their chances.
One of the Bucs scores came in under 2 minutes in the second... So...
Bowles should have been fired after the collapse in 2025.
The collapse is basically on the defense and built around some of the guys who are directly Bowles guys (LVD, SVD) and even around the discipline to stay in scheme, so yeah those are things that get a DC fired every season.
The counter though -- inside OBP - is that they are very unlikely to see the 2022 team as "Bowles Bucs" lol AND they likely see 2023 and 2024 as overachievement directly related to Bowles as a HC (Mayfield, Canales, Coen etc) especially when they were on the TRASK PLAN. So, even if you see that as DELUSIONAL yourself, it still shouldn't be to hard to understand as a possibility inside OBP.
The problem is that keeping Bowles is now definitely "half in, half out" because there certainly does NOT seem to be any FA cavalry on the way. They are not trying to turn it around as much as they are STAYING THE COURSE.
So, if there is no FA cavalry on the way the question is WHY? The most likley answer (although there are several possible) is that the Bucs are trying to move the team on from veteran/players contracts. You dont see them reconfiguring Vea's contract, for example, to gain cap space to sign some big FA. Evans gone, LVD next?
Anyway, in that scenario -- team still trying to manage finances first and foremost - you can see why they would keep Bowles for 2026, maybe even 2027. They are probably hoping he can get them to another barely win division playoff berth.
But the reality is Bowles' game plan was to keep everything in front which resulted in long drawn out drives that kept the offense off the field and out of rhythm.
It is still funny to read that kind of take.
The Bucs defense didnt keep the Bucs offense out of rhythm, the offense did. Mistakes and failures to convert key place EARLY. In 2024 the typical Bucs loss was falling behind early and that is what they did and the offense still had a chance late and choked that way TOO
Here's the EARLY failures on the offense:
Offense Drive 1 - FG instead of TD because of TWO incomplete passes to McMiallin, one for a first down he absolutely has to catch. THAT IS ONTHE OFFNSE, NOT THE DEFENSE
(Bucs DEFENSE stops Commanders on DOWNS)
Offense Drive 2 - LETS BUILD A LEAD! Nope . . .a PUNT after great runs then two bad runs and an incomplete
1st QTR ends Bucs had the ball almost 8:00, but only got 3 points
Commanders with a 92 yd TD drive and 9:00 -- definitely on the defense
Offensive Drive # 3 - big moment, time to show up . . . NOPE they PUNT
Here are the LATE CHOKES
If youjump to the 4th qtr is definitely the offense who chokes it away because its 17 to 13. . . BUCS 4 point lead . . bring on that RUN GAME
On top of that . .Bucs Defense stops the Commanders ON DOWNS. Almost 6 minutes of the 4th qtr gone and ZERO point to show for it
BRING ON THE RUN GAME . . . .
NOPE . . . . FUMBLE that results in an extreme short field TD, lead LOST
No worries, we get the ball back with plenty of time ONLY DOWN 3.
They only get 3 . . . and WHY? WHY do they only get three?
Big pass to your guy Otton, followed by BIG RUN . . but then zero on 2nd and 1 and -2 on 3rd and 1
Thats the OFFENSE, not the defense killing its rhythm lmao
The 2024 season saw the offense as the star for sure, but just as sure it CHOKED away the playoff game If anything, Bowles defense played ABOVE its actual ability.
How is tying the game a failure on the offense? You also left off LITERALLY THE SEASON ENDING DRIVE.
We all watched the game... We all knew Bowles couldn't get a stop there WHEN IT MATTERS MOST.
You keep forgetting that the 4th down stop in the red zone was yet another long drive.
Most teams can force 3 and outs at least one or two times. How many times did the Bucs defense?
offense had 7 drives in the game and put up a pedestrian 20 points.
Hard to score and get in rhythm when the defense allows a 17 play, 10 minute drive on the 2nd quarter.
Washington had 5 drives of over 10 plays including the final drive to win the game.
The Bucs punted twice, one of which in Washington territory.
Bucs forced zero punts, but did have 2 fourth down stops.
Washington had the ball for 11 more minutes while converting 8 third downs and 3 fourth downs.
Bottom line: the Bucs offense was average, not bad. It appears bad because Bucs defense went prevent all game which ate clock.
The Bucs defense was better than normal but at the cost of taking our offense completely out of rhythm and limiting their chances.
One of the Bucs scores came in under 2 minutes in the second... So...
that Baker brainless fumble was the beginning of the end for me
you may recall i was a Baker bro back in 2023 and 2024 only catapulted it more as he became a top 10 QB. But that fumble just showed the loser that he is
Then in 2025, it looked like Baker is actually the real deal with 4 rally wins out of first 5 games. A 5-1 start but then:
- 24-9 loss to Detroit, 1 TD pass, 1 INT - Yuck
- 23-3 win versus NO, no touchdowns or INTs, a defensive TD by the Bucs, a fumble loss by Baker - Yuck
- 28-23 loss versus Patriots, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, one of which a garbage time TD - GOOD
- 44-32 loss versus Bills, 1 TD, 1 INT, 1 fumble loss, couldn't convert a defensive TO at the 7 into a TD - Yuck
- 34-7 loss versus Rams 1 TD, 2 INT, albeit one on Otton and one on Grizzard - Yuck
- 20-17 win over Arizona, 1 TD, 0 INT, that's it??? - Yuck
- 24-20 loss versus Saints, 1 TD, 1 INT - Yuck
- 29-28 loss versus Atlanta 2 TD, 1 INT - an INT where a 6 yard completion gets us a field goal and a win, choke job - Yuck
- 23-20 loss versus Carolina 1 TD, 1 INT - an INT which ended the game....Yuck
- 20-17 Loss to Miami 2 TDs, 2 INTs, a fumble loss - Yuck
- 16-14 win over Carolina 1 TD,1 INT - Yuck
So he had 1 good game in the final 11 games. alot of shit performances, maybe an ok performance or two.
Bowles should have been fired for the defensive issues and decline each year, and locker room quitting, but Baker was ass.
Most teams can force 3 and outs at least one or two times. How many times did the Bucs defense?
haha when you post that youre sort of giving up the ghost because the game (and really the season) was about the Commanders going for it on 4th down
The Bucs stopped them on 4th down for their first drive. A sack on 3rd and an a pass defended on 4th. The offense punted .. . lol thats the point.
I bet the Bucs defense was probably plus or minus 50% stops on 3rd and 4th down
anyway, there's no getting around that the Bucs offense UNDERPERFORMED per its own scoring average and had a couple key big play gaffes
(and for the record, I get your point about the impact of bend dont break but thats not an issue if the offense performs even normal for itself, doesnt fumble deep in our end etc)
Most teams can force 3 and outs at least one or two times. How many times did the Bucs defense?
haha when you post that youre sort of giving up the ghost because the game (and really the season) was about the Commanders going for it on 4th down
The Bucs stopped them on 4th down for their first drive. A sack on 3rd and an a pass defended on 4th. The offense punted .. . lol thats the point.
I bet the Bucs defense was probably plus or minus 50% stops on 3rd and 4th down
anyway, there's no getting around that the Bucs offense UNDERPERFORMED per its own scoring average and had a couple key big play gaffes
(and for the record, I get your point about the impact of bend dont break but thats not an issue if the offense performs even normal for itself, doesnt fumble deep in our end etc)
Dude go read the transcripts. Both 4th down stops were in the red zone. There was no option to punt let alone a 3 and out.
Every single time the Commanders had the ball they converted a first down and continued to extend drives.
They were 54% on third down and 60% on 4th.
11-15 converting if you combine 3rd and 4th down.
2 stops, 3 FGs (1 to win the game as time expired).
I think my math is right there maybe I'm slightly off.
But there were no short drives for the commanders. Everything was extended. They controlled the clock.
Oh and btw Bowles punted in their territory
So he had 1 good game in the final 11 games.
I mean he clearly wasn't the same after the shoulder injury and the line got hurt, I agree.
But he had 3 or 4 good games, 1 or 2 solid games and yes the rest were trash.
He threw that pick vs Atlanta but it wasn't a bad game for example.
Your opinions of baker are so extreme I'm worried you might bomb him for weapons of mass destruction.
His resume here deserves far more respect. Embarrassing for people to get on these podcasts and have these takes.
As a self-proclaimed NFL GM...
...I'm assuming your take is that he'll be HIGHLY sought after if he hits the open market.
Right?
Bottom line: the Bucs offense was average, not bad. It appears bad because Bucs defense went prevent all game which ate clock.
The Bucs offense was 9 points BELOW average
it appeared bad because it was the top 1qtr scoring offense on the league and only scored 3 point in the 1st quarter
it appeared bad because it fumbled deep in our end.
It appeared bad because with a chance to put the game away it failed twice.
it looked bad because some of that 4th quarter failure was choking. Mistakes under pressure
Bottom line: the Bucs offense was average, not bad. It appears bad because Bucs defense went prevent all game which ate clock.
The Bucs offense was 9 points BELOW average
it appeared bad because it was the top 1qtr scoring offense on the league and only scored 3 point in the 1st quarter
it appeared bad because it fumbled deep in our end.
It appeared bad because with a chance to put the game away it failed twice.
it looked bad because some of that 4th quarter failure was choking. Mistakes under pressure
Below THEIR average would make them average. 20, 2 punts, 1 turnover with limited drives.
They didn't play great but they weren't the cause of losing.
Again the offense tied to the game. The defense then allowed a game winning fg.
That's the bottom line
The fumble dropped the Bucs win probability from 76% to 45%
The fumble dropped the Bucs win probability from 76% to 45%
It was 71.6% to 51.1%, per ESPN Analytics.
But yes, when the defense gets turnovers, it helps their team win. How many turnovers did Tampa's defense get that game? Is it the same number of punts they forced?
Bottom line: the Bucs offense was average, not bad. It appears bad because Bucs defense went prevent all game which ate clock.
The Bucs offense was 9 points BELOW average
it appeared bad because it was the top 1qtr scoring offense on the league and only scored 3 point in the 1st quarter
it appeared bad because it fumbled deep in our end.
It appeared bad because with a chance to put the game away it failed twice.
it looked bad because some of that 4th quarter failure was choking. Mistakes under pressure
Below THEIR average would make them average. 20, 2 punts, 1 turnover with limited drives.
They didn't play great but they weren't the cause of losing.
Again the offense tied to the game. The defense then allowed a game winning fg.
That's the bottom line
not to the actual players lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cigf6MHUV4
Mayfield postgame credits defense for playing well, Blake's offense and himself for fumble (point being fumble was critical error)
we got as good as we weee going to get from the defense
we got subpar choking from the offense
The fumble dropped the Bucs win probability from 76% to 45%
It was 71.6% to 51.1%, per ESPN Analytics.
But yes, when the defense gets turnovers, it helps their team win. How many turnovers did Tampa's defense get that game? Is it the same number of punts they forced?
Offense fumbled at their own 13 up 17-13 in the 4th qtr. Blaming the defense is maximum Bowles Derangement Syndrome