And Baker played all year despite clearly being hurt back half... How does something like that get measured?
It doesn't. By November, most NFL players are playing with some type of injury. When possible, guys play through pain all of the time in the NFL. That doesn't just happen with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Week 1 starters missing games is obviously a better metric.
What about guys that would have started in Week 1, but didn't because of injury?
The obvious point is, every NFL team deals with injuries. Some even win Superbowls with a significant number of their players missing games.
How does something like that get measured?
By acknowledging it as a factor. The problem with posting like Biggs is that he perceives reality as an excuse for Bowles when it's not. It's just reality.
Reality is that bowles is not a quality hc and was the biggest reason the team failed to make the playoffs last year.
Right now 49ers are closer and that's as simple as it is.
A team we beat, with a ton of injuries, is closer than us right now. Got it.
The Buccaneers beat the Seattle Seahawks last season. They hoisted the Lombardi at the end of the season.
You just made my point for me here. Look at the year we won it in 2020. We were absolutely used in the first half vs. the Chiefs in the regular season. Then we made a game of it in the second half and never let up in the Super Bowl. Tampa just needed health last season and there would have been a different outcome.
The Chiefs just needed health in the Super Bowl (backups on their OL destroyed their chances) and there would have been a different outcome.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda, any team can play that game.
The Superbowl winning Tampa Bay Buccaneers had 32 players miss games in 2020.
The Superbowl winning Seattle Seahawks had 32 players miss games in 2025.
The 8-9, Second Place NFCS Tampa Bay Buccaneers had 27 players miss games in 2025.
Some teams need excuses, other teams do not.
I mean this is a pretty cherry picked stat... I'd imagine losing a gunner isn't the same as losing a starting RT.
Week 1 starters missing games is obviously a better metric.
And Baker played all year despite clearly being hurt back half... How does something like that get measured?
would agree on different varying of injuries to key players
but Bucs were 6-2 when they were most injured
Ben Bredesen goes down and season is lost? doesn't add up
Baker playing ineffecitve second half while injury doesnt do anyone any good. Including himself by lack of contract extension.
With Jake Browning, hopefully we got a guy now that could start a game in the event Baker needs a healing week.
Reality is that bowles is not a quality hc and was the biggest reason the team failed to make the playoffs last year.
And Bowles continues to be the team's biggest liability heading into the 2026 season.
And Baker played all year despite clearly being hurt back half... How does something like that get measured?
It doesn't. By November, most NFL players are playing with some type of injury. When possible, guys play through pain all of the time in the NFL. That doesn't just happen with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Week 1 starters missing games is obviously a better metric.
What about guys that would have started in Week 1, but didn't because of injury?
The obvious point is, every NFL team deals with injuries. Some even win Superbowls with a significant number of their players missing games.
Right but Bucs had a ton of injuries at key positions. Not sure why that should be ignored.
Three offensive lineman, top 2 wrs, starting DT, starting corner(s), etc.
I'm not making excuses for Bowles because the collapse was against teams that were worse than us even with the injuries.
But the flat injury statistic isn't super compelling for me
Reality is that bowles is not a quality hc and was the biggest reason the team failed to make the playoffs last year.
Both things can be true
With Jake Browning, hopefully we got a guy now that could start a game in the event Baker needs a healing week.
Did we get Higgins and Chase too?
Right but Bucs had a ton of injuries at key positions. Not sure why that should be ignored.
Three offensive lineman, top 2 wrs, starting DT, starting corner(s), etc.
I'm not making excuses for Bowles because the collapse was against teams that were worse than us even with the injuries.
But the flat injury statistic isn't super compelling for me
I understand you aren't making excuses for Bowles, but others are.
The 1-4 collapse to shitty teams at the end of the season happened with all of Wirfs, Goedeke, Evans, Godwin, Irving, Dean, etc. all playing the majority of those games.
The beginning of the year was when there was a legit injury excuse, with Wifs, Goedeke, Evans, Godwin, & Irving missed large chunks of games. They were 6-2 with those guys missing a pretty big chunk of games. The team's best wins last season were against Seattle & SF:
Seattle Outs: Jamel Dean, Mike Evans, Luke Goedeke, Bucky Irving, Benjamin Morrison, & Christien Izien - WIN
SF Outs: Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Luke Goedeke, Bucky Irving, Zyon McCollum, & Benjamin Morrison - WIN
The injury narrative is an excuse.
Right but Bucs had a ton of injuries at key positions. Not sure why that should be ignored.
Three offensive lineman, top 2 wrs, starting DT, starting corner(s), etc.
I'm not making excuses for Bowles because the collapse was against teams that were worse than us even with the injuries.
But the flat injury statistic isn't super compelling for me
I understand you aren't making excuses for Bowles, but others are.
The 1-4 collapse to shitty teams at the end of the season happened with all of Wirfs, Goedeke, Evans, Godwin, Irving, Dean, etc. all playing the majority of those games.
The beginning of the year was when there was a legit injury excuse, with Wifs, Goedeke, Evans, Godwin, & Irving missed large chunks of games. They were 6-2 with those guys missing a pretty big chunk of games. The team's best wins last season were against Seattle & SF:
Seattle Outs: Jamel Dean, Mike Evans, Luke Goedeke, Bucky Irving, Benjamin Morrison, & Christien Izien - WIN
SF Outs: Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Luke Goedeke, Bucky Irving, Zyon McCollum, & Benjamin Morrison - WIN
The injury narrative is an excuse.
According to Lavonte David, a known liar, so take it for what it's worth, said...
"I'm telling you, Baker was going through a lot," David said. "Baker had a lot of injuries that you didn't expect a quarterback to play through. He had the oblique injury, he had the shoulder injury, he had a lot of things -- like ankle injury, knee injury -- he had a lot of stuff he was going through. The season's over now, I can talk about it, but he had a lot of stuff that he was going through and he was really trying to push and really trying to be the player that we needed him to be."
So when doing any evaluation, it needs to be noted that the engine on offense is Baker and he was completely banged up down the stretch. When he's healthy, we can overcome a lot of injuries elsewhere. A healthy starting QB is paramount to winning in the NFL, please take your Jeff Hostetler comments to your retirement home.
Reality is that bowles is not a quality hc and was the biggest reason the team failed to make the playoffs last year.
Both things can be true
We make the playoffs if Coen was HC.
Just to combat this injury excuse narrative even further, here is the team's record when the following players were out and in:
Jamel Dean: 2-0 without, 6-9 with
Mike Evans: 4-5 without, 4-4 with
Chris Godwin: 5-3 without, 3-6 with
Luke Goedeke: 4-2 without, 4-7 with
Bucky Irving: 3-4 without, 5-5 with
Zyon McCollum: 2-2 without, 6-7 with
Tristan Wirfs: 3-2 without, 5-7 with
The team only had a losing record when two of seven were out, and that's largely because both Evans & Irving missed the three-game losing streak to NE, @ Buf, & @ LAR. I would guess most would have thought they steal one of those if fully healthy, but maybe not. That was a tough stretch.
The team had a losing/even record with every player when they played. Not one winning record in the bunch when they were in the line-up.
Let's stop the madness.
Right but Bucs had a ton of injuries at key positions. Not sure why that should be ignored.
Three offensive lineman, top 2 wrs, starting DT, starting corner(s), etc.
I'm not making excuses for Bowles because the collapse was against teams that were worse than us even with the injuries.
But the flat injury statistic isn't super compelling for me
I understand you aren't making excuses for Bowles, but others are.
The 1-4 collapse to shitty teams at the end of the season happened with all of Wirfs, Goedeke, Evans, Godwin, Irving, Dean, etc. all playing the majority of those games.
The beginning of the year was when there was a legit injury excuse, with Wifs, Goedeke, Evans, Godwin, & Irving missed large chunks of games. They were 6-2 with those guys missing a pretty big chunk of games. The team's best wins last season were against Seattle & SF:
Seattle Outs: Jamel Dean, Mike Evans, Luke Goedeke, Bucky Irving, Benjamin Morrison, & Christien Izien - WIN
SF Outs: Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Luke Goedeke, Bucky Irving, Zyon McCollum, & Benjamin Morrison - WIN
The injury narrative is an excuse.
According to Lavonte David, a known liar, so take it for what it's worth, said...
"I'm telling you, Baker was going through a lot," David said. "Baker had a lot of injuries that you didn't expect a quarterback to play through. He had the oblique injury, he had the shoulder injury, he had a lot of things -- like ankle injury, knee injury -- he had a lot of stuff he was going through. The season's over now, I can talk about it, but he had a lot of stuff that he was going through and he was really trying to push and really trying to be the player that we needed him to be."
So when doing any evaluation, it needs to be noted that the engine on offense is Baker and he was completely banged up down the stretch. When he's healthy, we can overcome a lot of injuries elsewhere. A healthy starting QB is paramount to winning in the NFL, please take your Jeff Hostetler comments to your retirement home.
great....
nobody questioning Baker toughness and grit
but him playing like Hellen Keller against shit teams post Rams injury didn't do anyone any good.
and probably more a fault on Licht here for how bad Bridgewater looked in that we didn't have a competent back-up....and NO....before anyone says the guys name that is selling used car insurance, i actually forget...we drafted him high in the 2021 draft. Oh well, it will come back to me. Anyway, I can't believe the Lions signed Teddy after the Rams game showing
Jake Browning looked formable in the 2023 action he saw for half a year, he was less impressive last year but in any event. He might have been a good start in the Cardinals game post Baker injury in a game we likely win with him in there anyway.
so again, hopefully having a decent back-up can help us....WHEN...not IF....Baker gets banged up in 2026.
Just to combat this injury excuse narrative even further, here is the team's record when the following players were out and in:
Jamel Dean: 2-0 without, 6-9 with
Mike Evans: 4-5 without, 4-4 with
Chris Godwin: 5-3 without, 3-6 with
Luke Goedeke: 4-2 without, 4-7 with
Bucky Irving: 3-4 without, 5-5 with
Zyon McCollum: 2-2 without, 6-7 with
Tristan Wirfs: 3-2 without, 5-7 with
The team only had a losing record when two of seven were out, and that's largely because both Evans & Irving missed the three-game losing streak to NE, @ Buf, & @ LAR. I would guess most would have thought they steal one of those if fully healthy, but maybe not. That was a tough stretch.
The team had a losing/even record with every player when they played. Not one winning record in the bunch when they were in the line-up.
Let's stop the madness.
listen it's obviously not ideal to suffer as many injuries as the Bucs had particularly to key positions but as we've stated at nauseum, the Bucs were 6-2 when all this was going down. The 49ers, who had it worse, persevered through it, again better coaching contributing to that.
The Bucs then had a tough 3 game stretch and we had our mid season losing streak (Super bowl NE, BUF, and LAR) then did not surprise anyone. Heck, look back to 2024 when we were losing to likes of 49ers, Chiefs, Baltimore. Again, no surprise
so even at 6-5, we were meeting expectations.
the surprise was facing 6 cream puff games, being favored in all of them, to end the year and the Bucs only going 2-4.
While the defense played like ass and the team as a whole quit on Bowles, the offense put up more than 20 points, just 1 time in the 6 games. The average points scored in today's NFL is 23 points.
Everyone points to the atrociousness of the defense in the ATL game, 3rd and 28, but to give the offense a free pass particularly when we won games 16-14 and 20-17, is laughable.
Ben Bredesen went down and if we are suggesting that our worst offensive lineman going down was the difference, then i gotta question why Licht didn't bulk up that position more this offseason. We spent, what a 5th round pick, on a guy as depth. Here's hopping he can be the next Hainsey/Stinne type reserve player.
we can talk at nauseum as to the reason the team collapsed. Ultimately it was very surprising that Bowles kept his job but for those of you that ONLY blame Bowles and not the poor play of the key players, then i dont know what to tell you.
You can't fire all 53 players, but you can easily replace the head coach which i still can't believe they didnt. We now have a quasi head coach/DC that is not great at either of them part time, and what we hope to be improved ST/OC coordinators.
The team should be better but with the schedule, i would be surprised with win totals ranging anywhere from 6 to 9 games. 8 wins likely takes the division again
